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It Begins.....

Funwithfuel

Elite
Founding Member
So America itself will be the 21st centuries Ruby Ridge? Or Waco. They're already doing everything they can to limit meetings and congregating.
I live in the people's republic of Illinois, we have no right to NFAs. Does that mean folks will be forced to surrender? This all rings of total disarmament. Chipping away little by little. Oh, well, they're "just" going after this or that, "it's not important to me. " it better get important to you! Another time where old wisdom comes into play. "We must all hang together or we most assuredly will hang separately. "
 

Grifter

Custom
Founding Member
So America itself will be the 21st centuries Ruby Ridge? Or Waco. They're already doing everything they can to limit meetings and congregating.
I live in the people's republic of Illinois, we have no right to NFAs. Does that mean folks will be forced to surrender? This all rings of total disarmament. Chipping away little by little. Oh, well, they're "just" going after this or that, "it's not important to me. " it better get important to you! Another time where old wisdom comes into play. "We must all hang together or we most assuredly will hang separately. "
You are correct. Sadly they have done a great job of splintering us into different factions.
 

BET7

Hellcat
Founding Member
More information on this subject, namely Comments to the ATF on their recent declaration document on Stabilizing Pistol Braces is open to the public until 01/04/21 11:59 PM -05:00 (which I assume is GMT offset).
Links in this article will will take you to the ATF comment section for this particular ruling. My suggestion is that as many people comment as possible. Even those residing in non NFA allowed States as this article suggests, as a way to voice displeasure with that restriction as well. I'm not totally endorsing the authors entire opinion on amnesty, and that some ATF rules are fine in some cases. Personally, I'd like to see the entire NFA law struck down. My .02 cents

 
More information on this subject, namely Comments to the ATF on their recent declaration document on Stabilizing Pistol Braces is open to the public until 01/04/21 11:59 PM -05:00 (which I assume is GMT offset).
Links in this article will will take you to the ATF comment section for this particular ruling. My suggestion is that as many people comment as possible. Even those residing in non NFA allowed States as this article suggests, as a way to voice displeasure with that restriction as well. I'm not totally endorsing the authors entire opinion on amnesty, and that some ATF rules are fine in some cases. Personally, I'd like to see the entire NFA law struck down. My .02 cents

It’s understandable that gun enthusiasts need to stay vigilant on this issue as it affects us all however I’ll play
“Devil’s advocate” here and caution sending comments to any federal agency that is involved in this as you are then putting yourself front and center as being targeted first. This goes back to a article posted on the forum a few months back where the author suggested that people STOP sending letters to the ATF asking for clarity on certain product issues as all your doing is putting a thought in some agents head that this or that needs to be
re-evaluated.
It’s like waking up a sleeping bear and then wondering why it attacked you.
My opinion.
 
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Funwithfuel

Elite
Founding Member
You are correct. Sadly they have done a great job of splintering us into different factions.
True, this group only cares about what limits or regulates them. That group is only concerned if it imposes on what they're doing. In the end, any attack on any firearm related issues concerns us all. Hunters, competitive shooters, enthusiasts, collectors and hobbyists as well as all these "new" gun owners need to band together. The NRA has done a good job holding the line for a very long time. I personally turned my back on them years ago when their internal politics spilled over into the mainstream. I still hear/read stories of misappropriation of funds, extravagant expenses and salaries so I am at a crossroads. Do I support an organization that protects our individual rights but is known to foolishly squander finances, or do I support the smaller local grassroots organizations which don't have the same power but are much more financially responsible. I tell you, it's tough to decide.
 

Funwithfuel

Elite
Founding Member
This all goes back to the NRA and fudds not having a problem when bump stocks were targeted. This is what you get. You may not have cared about bump stocks.......but it set a precedent.
I agree 110% . I feel so foolish now for not having put my name on the petition that was circulated. I thought, "well, it's a novelty." It doesn't matter to me, I'll never own one " But now I find myself asking that we all band together. I know, hypocritical. For that , I'm sorry. I didn't realize that it was a stepping stone for something bigger. But, I should have known. The history is there. We sometimes become short-sighted. We must all remain vigilant for every and any attempt to whittle away our rights. If a particular position doesn't matter to you directly, think of it as they're coming for your EDC or your grandfather's heirloom M1 Garand. They throw out big nets saying they want to ban everything so that you'll concede some and feel as though you've won. The reality, you lost.
 

Grifter

Custom
Founding Member
I agree 110% . I feel so foolish now for not having put my name on the petition that was circulated. I thought, "well, it's a novelty." It doesn't matter to me, I'll never own one " But now I find myself asking that we all band together. I know, hypocritical. For that , I'm sorry. I didn't realize that it was a stepping stone for something bigger. But, I should have known. The history is there. We sometimes become short-sighted. We must all remain vigilant for every and any attempt to whittle away our rights. If a particular position doesn't matter to you directly, think of it as they're coming for your EDC or your grandfather's heirloom M1 Garand. They throw out big nets saying they want to ban everything so that you'll concede some and feel as though you've won. The reality, you lost.
Well said.

We need to remember they have time on their side. They don’t have to ban everything at once, they can do it piece by piece. All gun owners need to draw the line in the sand and say not one more inch.
 

BET7

Hellcat
Founding Member
It’s understandable that gun enthusiasts need to stay vigilant on this issue as it affects us all however I’ll play
“Devil’s advocate” here and caution sending comments to any federal agency that is involved in this as you are then putting yourself front and center as being targeted first. This goes back to a article posted on the forum a few months back where the author suggested that people STOP sending letters to the ATF asking for clarity on certain product issues as all your doing is putting a thought in some agents head that this or that needs to be
re-evaluated.
It’s like waking up a sleeping bear and then wondering why it attacked you.
My opinion.
I understand where you're coming from Keystone, and in certain ways I agree with you. But I remember when President Obama tried to get the ATF to ban M855 SS109 Green Tip 5.56 Nato ball ammo. The ATF issued a "Proclamation" that they were planning on doing this and asked for comments. So many negative comments came in that the ATF reversed course, causing the head of BATFE to resign (some rumors were that Pres. Obama asked for his resignation since he didn't push this through).
I feel if no one speaks up for this (as they did for that potential ban), then the ATF will feel that they're justified in letting this potential ban stand. It's one of our rights to petition the government and push back, but rightly so, this then could be used as a list of those that opposed and may be owners of said items. There comes a time when each of us will need to either speak up, or let the Government chip away at all our rights. True this is just my opinion, and as always, people are free to act as they feel.
 

BET7

Hellcat
Founding Member
This all goes back to the NRA and fudds not having a problem when bump stocks were targeted. This is what you get. You may not have cared about bump stocks.......but it set a precedent.
I agree with you xdman, and all others that have replied in kind. Excellent thread post response.
 

Talyn

Hellcat
Founding Member
Completely true.

The NRA is useless for anything besides filling the executives’ pockets.

Right now it is because of WLP. So if he could go and they would get someone in there with some balls (no Oliver North), get the hell out of business dealing in NY state, the org can get reinvigorated.

The Left knew they had to netralize the NRA this election cycle. IMO, WLP served that up to them on a platter with the NY insurance deal. Te subsequent legal activity resulted in the NRA becoming distracted and ineffective in this election cycle.
Fudds are Fudds and are a lost cause.
 
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Grifter

Custom
Founding Member
We have to change that. We can't have that position. We have to reach out to them and do whatever it takes to bring them in. We also have to draw in these newbie gun owners. There's strength in numbers and that's all these political hacks care about.
I wish everyone gun store had thrown in a membership to GOA, or some similar organization, to every new gun owner. Even if only 10% renewed for a second year we would of increased membership numbers significantly.

How can we make this happen?
 

BET7

Hellcat
Founding Member
I just received the following "Take Action" alert from Gun Owners of America (GOA). I am a member, but you don't have to be one to "Take Action" from the link below. They suggest a copy/paste of their "comment" on the ATF Stabilizing Braces Document, unless you want to write your own (I copied theirs). Things to note:
1) Their Docket number appeared to be different than the one described on the government site, so I removed GOA's Docket number from my comment (they did have the title right, so I left that)
2) GOA's link "Submit Comment" is set up to direct to the ATF Regulations Government site with the correct Docket number, but it is redirected to Regulations BETA site (I included this link below), and I needed to select the ATF titled document "Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with "Stabilizing Braces"" from under the "What's Trending" section.
3) Once entering that document, (I included a link to this document below as well). I clicked on the "comment" Box under the document title (see above), on the left side of the page.
4) I copied my comment starting with "I am submitting.." up to the "Thank You for..." GOA suggested text. From there, the ATF comment form asks for required information (denoted by a red *), such as name, whether you are an individual, organization, etc.. (you can select anonymous), and email address, if you wanted to be kept inform of this document/comments status (which I signed up for). I did not enter my Town, State, or Zip code, as it didn't seemed required.
5) I submitted my comment and was provided with a comment tracking number for future searches etc.

6) I tried at the top of the BETA site to go to the regular Regulations site, but kept getting redirected to the BETA site, which states that all comments submitted, will go to the appropriate government agencies. As of yesterday, there were over 21K comments on this issue submitted, and all comments must be submitted by January 4th 2021 11:59 PM -5 GMT. I haven't received anything from the NRA yet, but I'll keep searching and will post if I find anything that requests comments on this issue.

GOA link with sample comment:

https://gunowners.org/comment-on-the-atfs-proposed-rule-changes-to-pistol-braces/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NA ATF Alert 12212020&utm_content=NA ATF Alert 12212020+CID_5ae560d5aad278475c1df11f98c42247&utm_source=Email&utm_term=Take Action

ATF Government Regulation's site (BETA):

https://beta.regulations.gov/

ATF Document Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with "Stabilizing Braces" ,where comments can be submitted:

 
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Grifter

Custom
Founding Member
I just received the following "Take Action" alert from Gun Owners of America (GOA). I am a member, but you don't have to be one to "Take Action" from the link below. They suggest a copy/paste of their "comment" on the AFT Stabilizing Braces Document, unless you want to write your own (I copied theirs). Things to note:
1) Their Docket number appeared to be different than the one described on the government site, so I removed GOA's Docket number from my comment (they did have the title right, so I left that)
2) GOA's link "Submit Comment" is set up to direct to the ATF Regulations Government site with the correct Docket number, but it is redirected to Regulations BETA site (I included this link below), and I needed to select the ATF titled document "Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with "Stabilizing Braces"" from under the "What's Trending" section.
3) Once entering that document, (I included a link to this document below as well). I clicked on the "comment" Box under the document title (see above), on the left side of the page.
4) I copied my comment starting with "I am submitting.." up to the "Thank You for..." GOA suggested text. From there, the ATF comment form asks for required information (denoted by a red *), such as name, whether you are an individual, organization, etc.. (you can select anonymous), and email address, if you wanted to be kept inform of this document/comments status (which I signed up for). I did not enter my Town, State, or Zip code, as it didn't seemed required.
5) I submitted my comment and was provided with a comment tracking number for future searches etc.

6) I tried at the top of the BETA site to go to the regular Regulations site, but kept getting redirected to the BETA site, which states that all comments submitted, will go to the appropriate government agencies. As of yesterday, there were over 21K comments on this issue submitted, and all comments must be submitted by January 4th 2021 11:59 PM -5 GMT. I haven't received anything from the NRA yet, but I'll keep searching and will post if I find anything that requests comments on this issue.

GOA link with sample comment:

https://gunowners.org/comment-on-the-atfs-proposed-rule-changes-to-pistol-braces/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NA ATF Alert 12212020&utm_content=NA ATF Alert 12212020+CID_5ae560d5aad278475c1df11f98c42247&utm_source=Email&utm_term=Take Action

ATF Government Regulation's site (BETA):

https://beta.regulations.gov/

ATF Document Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with "Stabilizing Braces" ,where comments can be submitted:

Just did mine about an hour ago. Easy way to get your voice heard.

Go do it now!!!!!
 

BET7

Hellcat
Founding Member
Just did mine about an hour ago. Easy way to get your voice heard.

Go do it now!!!!!
Agreed Grifter, thanks for adding you comment to the ATF. I also "Took Action" and sent emails, on the two NRA-ILA links I found during my searches on this issue.

Here are two "Take Action" Alert links from the NRA-ILA. (Total of four links. Each contains the description of the issue, and the link where "Take Action" button takes you). First links are an email on the subject from you to your State US Senators (it also mentions your representatives and President Trump, but mine just allowed sending to my two US Senators, as far as I could tell. Your account may differ and include more recipients):


https://act.nraila.org/actions/campaigns/10293

Second Links are an email to the current administration's Federal Justice Department:


 
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