Have you ever taken a class in Human Factors? Or even read anything semi-formal on the subject?
Anyway.... I will fall back on the old "appeal to authority" argument.
The top practical pistol competition shooters in the world pretty much all shoot 2011s (in the competition divisions where they are allowed). Maybe not ALL, but pretty much all. And they pretty much all have the grip safety pinned. Do you think you train as much as they do? Do you think normal schmoes who carry concealed for self-defense are going to train as much (and as well) as they do?
And why do those guys have their grip safeties pinned? If you can actually train it out 100%, then why would any of them EVER need to have their grip safety pinned?
The idea that you can train something - ANYTHING - out to the point of literal 100% reliability, in a high-stress situation, where you may even be using one hand to fend off an attacker is what is ludicrous here. Basically, what you are claiming is that you can train well and then NEVER make a mistake. Ludicrous.
Stuart, Respectfully I’m nobody’s mouthpiece but where Did Bassbob state 100%?
If people can be trained to do something than the same people can be trained to stop doing something. As an instructor you do that every day. You train folks to not move the gun when they shoot, not anticipate, use a different or more effective grip than their uncle taught them etc etc
So working or not working a manual safety is the same thing. Like always it’s up to the person. The same thing goes on with folks throwing $400 red dots on their pistols. Some practice to master it most so not!
Like many of us said training can “train” it out but not all the time. Like proficiency it depends on the person and their commitment.
And comparing Competition shooters to a Civilian CCW or LE is apples to oranges. And a lot more than a pinned safety (which I haven’t seen since the early 2000’s with al the divisions in USPSA now) Competition is technical and CCW/LE is Application two totally different things.
Competition you get a 5 min walk through get to choreograph your shots and reloads and each target gets at least 2 rounds with no penalty misses or follow up shots.
CCW/LE you have to legally justify each shot but more importantly you don’t get a walkthrough. And in a CCW you have normal earth people gear and guns.
And while in LE or Military while you know you have an increased risk a lot of times I was involved in something or shot several folks with less lethal trust me it was a surprise as many times as it was not. We don’t/can’t run around aiming guns or less lethal things at everyone like we did back in the 1980’s
This whole thread reminds me of the “Is it a slide stop or slide release.” That also depends on the gun and the shooter. Some slide stops work great as slide releases some don’t. Same as the shooter.
Again just respectfully discussing