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Manual Safety or Not: Too Dangerous To Carry?

SaltyMonkey

Master Class
Good read , thank you.
I dont have to have one but there will always be someone that would attach a full LOTO procedure to their firearms if they could.
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So adding it to the most popular models would be a selling point as opposed to manufacturers that don’t offer it at all.
 
The so-called safety triggers actually added a new term to our shooting lexicon: Glock Leg. The social media abound with such incidents. Strangely, many of those that were documented include a very large subset of those that refuse to talk about the circumstances arising from their injuries. I've read accounts of those that tried to blame a twig that entered the trigger guard during reholstering. Others blamed a fold of cloth during reholstering, or they blamed the holster itself. Of course reholstering during a stress event predisposes us to such accidents. That includes those that still have their finger on the trigger. They don't so much pull the trigger as they have the holster to blame for pushing their errant booger digger.
So I'll stick with my 1911 and other pistols that have manual safeties.
 
Great article!
Good food for thought.
Personally I choose the 1911 Series 70 since it is what I grew up with. Unfortunately I have never heard or read about the not-so-obvious risk that the Series 70 comes with… namely when loading or unloading, the thumb safety must be selected “off”. At that particular time the pistol is “live”. Of course good handling and training skills should include avoiding contact with the trigger and pointing the muzzle in a safe direction. It’s that “momentary lapse of focus” that bites. Cheers, Stan
 

Sdalla1

Alpha
Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled “Manual Safety or Not: Too Dangerous To Carry?” and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/manual-safety-or-not/.

I purchased my hellcat when the manual safety was not a feature if they offered a swap program I would change but it would be unfair to have to take a loss I don’t feel unsafe but definitely extra cautious
 

jmcd

Professional
Founding Member
Most everything I own has a manual safety. A few have grip safeties. the only 2 that don't are my Shields. Im suprised they are sold that way here. I had the option to get them, but for me it I just found them awkward. Mabey the shape? I dont know. Would not have been a smooth action for me.
 
Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled “Manual Safety or Not: Too Dangerous To Carry?” and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/manual-safety-or-not/.

Thought provoking read. I carry the XDM Conceal carry 3.8, 9mm. I have preferred the 9mm over any other round. I spent many years on an Air Force Tactical Team, we shot everything and my team always came back to the 9mm, so much easier to keep on target - practice is the key. I shoot twice a week live fire. Every day when I arm myself I mentality visualize my reactions - practice and thinking - increasing the size of my roll-a-decks outcomes. I draw up my own targets on large post-it note sheets, I have my safety on the trigger and back handle (Backstrap), I always have one in the pipe to send. I never play around in my training - keep your finger off the trigger until the game is on, mental conditioning builds confidence. You will not have the time to rack a round in when its go time. Trust your training and equipment.
 

Rudi2

Alpha
S&W M&P 2.0 compact with a manual safety, but most times I use Israeli carry - loaded mag, empty chamber. Might think different in Chicago or Atlanta.
 
The so-called safety triggers actually added a new term to our shooting lexicon: Glock Leg. The social media abound with such incidents. Strangely, many of those that were documented include a very large subset of those that refuse to talk about the circumstances arising from their injuries. I've read accounts of those that tried to blame a twig that entered the trigger guard during reholstering. Others blamed a fold of cloth during reholstering, or they blamed the holster itself. Of course reholstering during a stress event predisposes us to such accidents. That includes those that still have their finger on the trigger. They don't so much pull the trigger as they have the holster to blame for pushing their errant booger digger.
So I'll stick with my 1911 and other pistols that have manual safeties.
Great post! I too only use, and recommend to those who ask, firearms with manual safeties. A trigger "safety" doesn't know it isn't your finger pulling the trigger if or when something else applies pressure to it.
 

William Floyd

Alpha
Founding Member
I cc a XDM. A bit bulky, but I like the safety aspect of the grip safety & trigger safety. I cc a 365 for awhile but never felt comfortable with it due to its lack of safety. I have shot guns on and off for nearly 6 decades, learning with a 1911. (of course) Sure would like the addition of a thumb safety.
 

Invisibleflash

Operator
I have Glocks, FN's and Hellcats. No manual safety on any of them.

I dropped a Glock onto concrete from about 3 - 4 feet by accident. No discharge. From what I understand, a striker fired pistol is 'something' like a revolver. It needs the trigger pull to shoot the gun. Dropping it won't fire it.

I'm very happy with all the striker fired pistols I own. I used to worry about no safety and thought they may just go off; but once I looked into them, I don't worry any longer.
 
@SimonRL The little boy in us gets the better of all of us sometimes, doesn't he. I'm not reporting it, but I am asking you to delete it because I am certain you are man enough to know it is the right thing to do.
 
Great article!
Good food for thought.
Personally I choose the 1911 Series 70 since it is what I grew up with. Unfortunately I have never heard or read about the not-so-obvious risk that the Series 70 comes with… namely when loading or unloading, the thumb safety must be selected “off”. At that particular time the pistol is “live”. Of course good handling and training skills should include avoiding contact with the trigger and pointing the muzzle in a safe direction. It’s that “momentary lapse of focus” that bites. Cheers, Stan
Why do you need an “off” while unloading?

Drop the mag, lock the slide to the rear, ejecting the round…not gonna go bang.

While loading…yes, there is a chance of hammer follow, particularly if you mucked with stiff you shouldn’t have mucked with…I know first hand, as I had a buddy’s “garage gunsmithed” 1911 go cyclic on me when I chambered a round…fortunately, it was pointed downrange, and I think even most of the rounds went into the berm…

Which is why now on ALL bottom-feeder pistols, I use what’s called a “charger mag”—that is, a magazine that has only one round loaded that I chamber…then replace it with a full mag.

Note that I do this on ALL autos, though; it can happen with strikers, or DA/SA autos as well.
 

stuartv

Operator
I have only carried 1911s for my whole CCW life (about 30 years now).

But, I listened to a podcast by Mike Glover (of Fieldcraft Survival) a few months ago and it has certainly gotten me to at least considering changing my EDC to a single action striker-fired pistol with no safety (other than the blade in the trigger).

I think there is no disputing the fact that any and every manual safety on a pistol is a POTENTIAL impediment to firing the weapon when you want to. I mean, that's what they are for - preventing you from firing the weapon.

If you're in an urgent, high-stress situation, WILL you always be able to get a good enough grip to reliably disengage a grip safety? Will you remember to, and be able to EXPEDITIOUSLY, click off a thumb safety? What if you're having to operate the pistol with only your weak (usually, left) hand?

Mike made a pretty good case for why law enforcement or military might need or be required to carry pistols with more safety features than a private citizen carrying solely for self-defense. So, what they do is not necessarily what is best for the rest of us.

If you are that private citizen, carrying for self-defense, the concept of carrying a pistol that will GUARANTEED (well, as guaranteed as anything in life can be) go off when you pull the trigger is pretty appealing. No chance of it not going off because you didn't click off the thumb safety (whether you forgot, or you missed, or you're shooting lefty and it's only on the "wrong" side). No chance of it not going off because you didn't get a "proper" grip.

It is the same appeal as carrying a revolver, but with a nice, light trigger and many more rounds on tap - all in a less bulky package.

For the moment, I am still carrying only 1911s. But, I have been shooting them for 30 years, I practice with them, and I shoots USPSA, IDPA, and SCSA matches with them. I nevertheless recognize I could forget to sweep the safety, not be able to reach it, or get a bad grip and have made a conscious decision to live with that risk, as I consider it very low (for me). At least for now. But, I may yet change my EDC to something striker-fired....


ps. I DO believe that the risk of a Glock-style trigger getting caught on a shirt, and causing an AD, when holstering into a concealed carry holster is real. The risk is low, but I think it is real enough to merit being VERY careful with that.
 

stuartv

Operator
It is all about the training

Disagree.

I would say it is mostly about the training. If it was ALL about the training, then all the smart people would carry revolvers. They don't because training is important, but the equipment matters, too. And if you take 1000 people and give them good training with a 1911, and 1000 different people and give them good training with a Glock, then put them all through a bunch of high-stress self-defense scenarios, I would bet you real money that the 1911 group would have more instances of not firing a round when they intended to versus the Glock group. Because, every now and then, very occasionally, even a well-trained operator with a 1911 will fail to get that thumb safety clicked off or fail to get the right grip. Which was one of Mike Glover's points in his podcast.
 
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