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More 10mm, less .45, for me...and a carbine would be nice

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BryanPearson

Alpha
Very happy with my Saint Victor 9mm rifle. I was delighted when it was announced, but was a little reticent because of the Colt pattern magazines. I bought one after being able get hands-on with one at my local Scheels. With the right loading tool, the stick mags work fine. (Without the loader, they are not very finger-friendly.) They are all-metal, sturdy, and so far quite reliable. With an affordable red dot this rifle is exactly what I was looking for as a step up in accuracy and capacity from the 9mm handguns I have.
The AR-style manual of arms was familiar to me from my time in the service, and that was a big factor in choosing the more expensive Saint Victor over one of the more idiosyncratic carbines from Ruger or Smith & Wesson.
Recently I spent some time looking for something more powerful than 9mm, and after much review, decided that .45 just wasn't a significant step up anymore. I decided to try 10mm, and looked around for a good handgun in that caliber. Just as I have standardized on the AR-style for rifles, I much prefer the 1911-style handgun. I looked around for a double-stack, and wasn't seeing one from a manufacturer I trust. I finally decided to take a chance on a Rock Island Armory 10mm double-stack. I don't know if I lucked out or if they are typically this good, but I am completely happy with the fit and finish of that gun. And the parkerized finish matches my Springfield rifles perfectly. Now I find myself wishing for a carbine for this more powerful round.
10mm comes in a wide variety of power and bullet types, and I have been able to shoot them reliably (so far) in my handgun, with ball, hollow-point, and the newer 100% copper with external fluting rounds working fine as well. Over the past few years, 10mm bulk purchase has come down in price to match or even run lower than .45 ACP. Given that I can get such a variety of ammo, I have decided to stop buying .45, though my old Colt (Norinco) or my XDS still work fine.
So I have this itch for a carbine, but I am just not seeing 10mm carbines with a vanilla AR-style setup. I know the CMMG and Stribog both have the very appealing roller-delayed action now, and are reliable, but I would prefer to stay away from the folding stock and short barrel because they are not welcome in too many states, and they are definitely not AR-style rifles, either. I would love to see a Saint Victor in 10mm that handles a variety of ammo like the 9mm rifle does. I think it is a much more attractive option for hunting as well.
Would anyone else here want to see Springfield Armory introduce a 10mm Prodigy or a 10mm Saint Victor?
 
HansGruber said:
There a very, very few AR pattern 10mm’s out there due to the fact nobody can get one to run reliably.
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There was always a time when everything wasn't reliable, before some manufacturer put the time and effort into solving the problems. While high-end 10mm pressures are a very different animal, I am confident that the engineering solutions could be found, IF there is a market for it. I am saying I would be part of the market for one.
I am sure there were plenty of poor designs of 9mm 1911s before they became just as good as the .45 designs. When I shoot my 9mm or 10mm DS it feels like home.
Staccato (formerly STI) used to be all about the .45 ACP, and now they are 100% 9mm. Sure the 1911 was designed around the .45, but adaptation has improved to the point that .45 is more of a legacy thing.
 
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BryanPearson said:
There was always a time when everything wasn't reliable, before some manufacturer put the time and effort into solving the problems. While high-end 10mm pressures are a very different animal, I am confident that the engineering solutions could be found, IF there is a market for it. I am saying I would be part of the market for one.
I am sure there were plenty of poor designs of 9mm 1911s before they became just as good as the .45 designs. When I shoot my 9mm or 10mm DS it feels like home.
Staccato (formerly STI) used to be all about the .45 ACP, and now they are 100% 9mm. Sure the 1911 was designed around the .45, but adaptation has improved to the point that .45 is more of a legacy thing.
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STI made a 10mm model; a buddy has one.

As for ARs—many manufacturers have tried 10mm’s. There were no truly successful ones. It’s easy to just say “well, just try harder…” but the platform doesn’t seem to work.

If you truly believe it’s possible, and it’s just a lack of trying…there’s all the parts out there to build your own. Prove everyone wrong.
 
HansGruber said:
If you truly believe it’s possible, and it’s just a lack of trying…there’s all the parts out there to build your own. Prove everyone wrong.
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STI doesn't currently offer a 10mm or a .45 - I think at least partly because their main customer base has a real preference for 9mm. Right now 9mm is half the price of 10mm, easier to shoot, and the guns are easier to work with. (lighter, easier to rack in a round, etc)
I have both a .308 and a 9mm Saint Victor, and I really appreciate how similar they are on a user level, even though one is gas-operated and the other a blowback. None of my use cases make me want a .223, but for me a 10mm would be a slam-dunk.
The engineering tends to follow the market's interest in a caliber, as evidenced by the 6.5 Creedmoor and 300 Blackout, both of which are only about a decade old. Now that 10mm is popular enough to be priced on a par with .45, I am optimistic about the possibility that 10mm carbines might be seen as a growth market. As an example of experimentation in that area I offer the LC Carbine from Ruger, which is .45 ACP - the first new .45 ACP carbine introduced in quite a while of which I am aware.
I agree that there are parts out there, but I prefer to buy finished products. I do take your point that it hasn't been done well enough by anyone else, and I accept that you don't expect SA will take an interest in it.
 
I looked at a 10mm PCC the other day, it had a new frontier lower and no clue about the upper. there was so much slop between the cylinders and the halves didn't mate very good. it was very cheaply made. i handed it back and said thanks for letting me look at it. they wanted 800 bucks for it. i wouldn't have give 300
 
Belt Fed said:
the halves didn't mate very good. it was very cheaply made. i handed it back and said thanks for letting me look at it.
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That is how I felt about several of the AR9s I considered before settling on the Springfield. I want to spend my time learning to shoot better, and not learning to become gunsmith enough to work through the problems of a franken-gun.
 
BryanPearson said:
That is how I felt about several of the AR9s I considered before settling on the Springfield. I want to spend my time learning to shoot better, and not learning to become gunsmith enough to work through the problems of a franken-gun.
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I wouldn't mind having a 10mm carbine but it's gotta look better than that one i looked at. but i really haven't been looking hard. i just seen that one and ask to see it.
 
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