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Power vs capacity

If your use of deadly force is legally justified, caliber is not going to be an issue. If legally questionable, unusual calibers can become a hook for a prosecutor or plaintiff's attorney to latch onto as an aggravating factor.

However, Florida statute 790.31 does prohibit certain types of ammo, like exploding bullets, armor piercing, or flechette rounds.

Chapter 790 Section 31 - 2022 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate https://share.google/f3FpX1DofRWvvXvHx

In Florida and some of the other free states, if your use of force is justifiable you cannot be charged or sued.

I recommend Critical Duty from Hornady because it is a commonly used caliber developed and tested to FBI standards and is certainly potent enough for gators and two legged varmints. Even so, shot placement is still king.

But stop walking your dog next to bodies of fresh water in Florida that contain gators, it's like ringing a dinner bell for them.
 
cooper357 said:
I carry 357 magnum revolvers of different sizes and use different grains for what in doing. Example ill use speer short barrel 135 grain or hornady 125 grain flex tip in my m and p 340 amd ill go all the way up to 180 grain hard cast in my 686 plus when im around big gators here in florida. My issue is the fact that if youre a good guy and and an armed bad guy has to be dealt with, it doesnt matter what caliber you use if you get the wrong prosecutor hes going to spin it like youre the bad guy! If you carry 9mm and shoot the bad guy 5 or 6 times its too many shots ,if youre me and hit him twice in the center mass it's the caliber I used. What if im walking my 20 pound dog near a water area and I bring my 180 grain hardcast just in case and the gators stay away but a psycho human comes outta nowhere and tries to rob me with a knife and I shoot him. Now im screwed for the ammo I had in my gun for gators instead of the focus being on the fact that this pos tried to rob me.
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Read up on laws of your state. Whether traffic or firearms
Know them.

Relax, you’re not in CT anymore.
Het that CT hogwash, brainwash, liberal mindset out of the brain 😉
 
PieterCoetzee said:
Yeah I think maybe youve listen to too many YouTube videos and Shooting Insurance companies. The States Attorney doesnt get the file if you are listed as a VICTIM in the police report. Id suggest you learn how to articulate and should a shooting be necessary, explain why you had to shoot. Dont wait for you attorney...bad guys want an attorney.

Tell the officer what happened, make him understand that YOU are the victim, not the guy with MAGNUM holes leaking on the sidewalk or the guy with a mag full of 9mm holes.
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Not exactly true in all states, especially CA. Most agencies complete their investigations with a phrase similar to RECOMMENDATIONS: Submit to District Attorney for review and considerations in filing of appropriate charges. This gets the monkey of of the back of the investigating agency and places it on the prosecution's office. Remember, Sheriff's are elected and Chief's are appointed by City Council's. In almost all self defense cases, the political thermometer of the community at large is read as the investigation moves through the process. The management goal is to get the case to the prosecutor ASAP. The detective goal is to gather the evidence to support his/her opinions and investigatory conclusions.

My agency had a Monday morning case briefing for all major cases. The detectives line up outside of the detective command staff office, and have a few minutes to provide case updates. In these briefings, command staff outlines expectations related to filing deadlines, etc. In other word, the initial on-scene officers are a small part of the incident. These types of events are reviewed at detective unit supervisor, detective commanding officer, station commanding officer and then Super Chief level. Sure, it is nice for the on-scene folks to understand what transpired but their opinions are but a small part of the journey that the event will travel down.
 
ECS686 said:
Respectfully short of using tracer flame whatever that burst a guy into flames what caliber you choose is of no relevance. That’s an old outdated tale. (And the case woth 10mm in AZ woth the guy named Fish was not about the 10mm it was the statement of Fish didn’t jive with other folks that heard the shots and the time it was called in.)

We had this discussion on number of rounds in the thread about the Texas Dad and the car jacker

Bottom line as long as you can articulate the perp was still a threat. If he is on the ground and not reacting it’s best not to put one in his head!

As far as ammo if your out hunting or hiking and have 180 grains it’s not gonna make shootjng a person any more serious. And it won’t give the prosecutor an in to charge you if all things pointed it was justified then it was justified.

No different than a Hunter getting attacked and using his handgun or even rifle loaded with hunting rounds!
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Agreed
 
Pat-R said:
Not exactly true in all states, especially CA. Most agencies complete their investigations with a phrase similar to RECOMMENDATIONS: Submit to District Attorney for review and considerations in filing of appropriate charges. This gets the monkey of of the back of the investigating agency and places it on the prosecution's office. Remember, Sheriff's are elected and Chief's are appointed by City Council's. In almost all self defense cases, the political thermometer of the community at large is read as the investigation moves through the process. The management goal is to get the case to the prosecutor ASAP. The detective goal is to gather the evidence to support his/her opinions and investigatory conclusions.

My agency had a Monday morning case briefing for all major cases. The detectives line up outside of the detective command staff office, and have a few minutes to provide case updates. In these briefings, command staff outlines expectations related to filing deadlines, etc. In other word, the initial on-scene officers are a small part of the incident. These types of events are reviewed at detective unit supervisor, detective commanding officer, station commanding officer and then Super Chief level. Sure, it is nice for the on-scene folks to understand what transpired but their opinions are but a small part of the journey that the event will travel down.
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All the more reasons to have articulated the incident to show that you are the VICTIM. Sure politics may come into play but no States Atty will take a case where the PD says he was the VICTIM. Just imagine defense putting the officers in front of a jury and having them say he was the victim.
 
cooper357 said:
I carry 357 magnum revolvers of different sizes and use different grains for what in doing. Example ill use speer short barrel 135 grain or hornady 125 grain flex tip in my m and p 340 amd ill go all the way up to 180 grain hard cast in my 686 plus when im around big gators here in florida. My issue is the fact that if youre a good guy and and an armed bad guy has to be dealt with, it doesnt matter what caliber you use if you get the wrong prosecutor hes going to spin it like youre the bad guy! If you carry 9mm and shoot the bad guy 5 or 6 times its too many shots ,if youre me and hit him twice in the center mass it's the caliber I used. What if im walking my 20 pound dog near a water area and I bring my 180 grain hardcast just in case and the gators stay away but a psycho human comes outta nowhere and tries to rob me with a knife and I shoot him. Now im screwed for the ammo I had in my gun for gators instead of the focus being on the fact that this pos tried to rob me.
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Welcome to the forum from South Texas.
 
Southerner Up North said:
Not ammo, but caliber brought a conviction of a man for using a 10mm when he defended himself against dogs and ultimately the dog's owner. Dog's owner attacked dog attack victim and victim defended himself.
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Well thats not exactly TRUE. Im sure its what you "heard" on the youtube; but its WRONG. What got him in trouble was his inconsistent statements and his timeline of events.

He may not have lied (yeah kinda) but he certainly failed to ARTICULATE the events in a way that showed him to be a VICTIM
 
Articulation is key. If I were in an incident my priorities would be 911...Legal Assistance...Upon arrival I would tell the officers I was attacked, I feared for my life, but I need my attorney in order to continue. I don't know if this is correct but it would be my gameplan.
 
Southerner Up North said:
Not ammo, but caliber brought a conviction of a man for using a 10mm when he defended himself against dogs and ultimately the dog's owner. Dog's owner attacked dog attack victim and victim defended himself.
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Not for sure I see caliber being an issue (unless state law) and definitely don't see 10mm being an issue.
 
southtex said:
Articulation is key. If I were in an incident my priorities would be 911...Legal Assistance...Upon arrival I would tell the officers I was attacked, I feared for my life, but I need my attorney in order to continue. I don't know if this is correct but it would be my gameplan.
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Well, you do what you think is best BUT the police wont wait for your attorney, and saying you want your attorney sounds like something they are used to criminals saying. Yes its your right; but while youre waiting, the officer wont be thinking that guy is a victim. All hes thinking about is that hes gonna have to work late because YOU shot some guy.

Your articulation later is TOO LATE. evidence that might have been found at the scene may be lost forever. While you are waiting the report is being written and once youre listed as a suspect nothing will change that.

Do what you want
 
The 3 I's investigation, interview, interrogation while there are differences, do have overlap. They are also very fluid and can rapidly change. That's why I would wait on an individual that understands when the game is changing.
 
southtex said:
The 3 I's investigation, interview, interrogation while there are differences, do have overlap. They are also very fluid and can rapidly change. That's why I would wait on an individual that understands when the game is changing.
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You should do what you think is best; but as I keep saying the report wont wait, in fact the poor patrol guy will be glad that you are waiting so he can get the report written and go home. He'll be happy to turn it over to the suits BUT once he lists YOU as anything other than VICTIM, theres no going back from that
 
Hi,

PieterCoetzee said:
...the police wont wait for your attorney, and saying you want your attorney sounds like something they are used to criminals saying. Yes its your right; but while youre waiting, the officer wont be thinking that guy is a victim. All hes thinking about is that hes gonna have to work late because YOU shot some guy.

Your articulation later is TOO LATE. evidence that might have been found at the scene may be lost forever. While you are waiting the report is being written and once youre listed as a suspect nothing will change that.
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PieterCoetzee said:
...the poor patrol guy will be glad that you are waiting so he can get the report written and go home. He'll be happy to turn it over to the suits BUT once he lists YOU as anything other than VICTIM, theres no going back from that
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PieterCoetzee said:
...What got him in trouble was his inconsistent statements and his timeline of events.

He may not have lied (yeah kinda) but he certainly failed to ARTICULATE the events in a way that showed him to be a VICTIM
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I have just defended myself with my firearm. The adrenaline is coursing through my veins. My heart is pumping a mile a minute. Everything happened so fast. Events blurred. Am I going to remember everything? Where was everyone standing/moving? What was said up until the event occurred? Did I notice any witnesses? What did the bad guy do to threaten me? What happened to the bad guy's weapon? Will I recall all the facts in the proper order while I'm in shock after a traumatic situation?

Should I ask the officer, "Pretty please, could you list me as the VICTIM in your report?" Or should I just blather on saying everything I think I remember, everything I might have seen, tell him my feelings and my fears, my hopes and dreams?

Are you offering legal counsel? If it's so important for the inital reporting officer (LAPD? Hazzard County Deputy Sheriff?) to list me as a VICTIM, what do I say to him/her? What do you recommend?

The firm I pay to take care of me says this:

1) Call 911
Explain: "I was attacked, feared for my life and had to defend myself."
Request: "Please send BOTH police and an ambulance to this location."

2) Call my law team.

3) When Responding Officers Arrive
Comply: Follow all police instructions.
Medical: Request medical attention, if necessary.
Silence: "I will cooperate 100 percent, but first I need my attorney." (Do not talk further without your lawyer present.)

Now, I realize that I will probably spend a few hours, or even the whole night in jail. I will likely have my firearm confiscated. My attorney will be able to calmly walk me through the previous events so that I can recall details and timelines in a coherent, concise, fact-filled statement that will remain consistent throughout any proceedings. My bail will be arranged. My firearm will be replaced, if not returned. All my legal fees, bail, expert witnesses (if necessary), outside investigations, etc, are covered. Because of my training, I am confident that I would be completely exonerated.

You should do what you think is best.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
BassCliff said:
Hi,





I have just defended myself with my firearm. The adrenaline is coursing through my veins. My heart is pumping a mile a minute. Everything happened so fast. Events blurred. Am I going to remember everything? Where was everyone standing/moving? What was said up until the event occurred? Did I notice any witnesses? What did the bad guy do to threaten me? What happened to the bad guy's weapon? Will I recall all the facts in the proper order while I'm in shock after a traumatic situation?

Should I ask the officer, "Pretty please, could you list me as the VICTIM in your report?" Or should I just blather on saying everything I think I remember, everything I might have seen, tell him my feelings and my fears, my hopes and dreams?

Are you offering legal counsel? If it's so important for the inital reporting officer (LAPD? Hazzard County Deputy Sheriff?) to list me as a VICTIM, what do I say to him/her? What do you recommend?

The firm I pay to take care of me says this:

1) Call 911
Explain: "I was attacked, feared for my life and had to defend myself."
Request: "Please send BOTH police and an ambulance to this location."

2) Call my law team.

3) When Responding Officers Arrive
Comply: Follow all police instructions.
Medical: Request medical attention, if necessary.
Silence: "I will cooperate 100 percent, but first I need my attorney." (Do not talk further without your lawyer present.)

Now, I realize that I will probably spend a few hours, or even the whole night in jail. I will likely have my firearm confiscated. My attorney will be able to calmly walk me through the previous events so that I can recall details and timelines in a coherent, concise, fact-filled statement that will remain consistent throughout any proceedings. My bail will be arranged. My firearm will be replaced, if not returned. All my legal fees, bail, expert witnesses (if necessary), outside investigations, etc, are covered. Because of my training, I am confident that I would be completely exonerated.

You should do what you think is best.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
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