testtest

Power vs capacity

I carry 357 magnum revolvers of different sizes and use different grains for what in doing. Example ill use speer short barrel 135 grain or hornady 125 grain flex tip in my m and p 340 amd ill go all the way up to 180 grain hard cast in my 686 plus when im around big gators here in florida. My issue is the fact that if youre a good guy and and an armed bad guy has to be dealt with, it doesnt matter what caliber you use if you get the wrong prosecutor hes going to spin it like youre the bad guy! If you carry 9mm and shoot the bad guy 5 or 6 times its too many shots ,if youre me and hit him twice in the center mass it's the caliber I used. What if im walking my 20 pound dog near a water area and I bring my 180 grain hardcast just in case and the gators stay away but a psycho human comes outta nowhere and tries to rob me with a knife and I shoot him. Now im screwed for the ammo I had in my gun for gators instead of the focus being on the fact that this pos tried to rob me.
Coop, I too sometimes carry for gators, typically a Colt Trooper III with some pretty heavy stuff, often hand loads. But where I would carry for gators, I'm not likely to run into a human of much concern. And if I'm going places where I might run into humans of concern I'm not likely to run into the gators, so I carry something a little smaller but with more capacity. I won't ask where you're from or any other identifiers, but I'm curious where you might be concerned about running into both on the same trip unless you're a Wildlife Officer or 'game warden'. I don't think any of us can readily determine what, if any firearm and ammo we might need at any given time or place for sure, or what combination might be the best choice in either event if we concede that the 'wrong' prosecutor will spin it like we're the bad guy. If we're to carry, we carry the firearm and ammo most likely to handle any problem we might run into, and it's pretty likely the 'wrong' prosecutor is going to spin it like we're the bad guy anyway. In either situation, I'll shoot whatever I'm carrying until the threat, whether man or beast has been stopped. I don't mean this in any way as a disagreement, only to better define and understand the circumstances we might face. thanks, jj.
 
Well, you do what you think is best BUT the police wont wait for your attorney, and saying you want your attorney sounds like something they are used to criminals saying. Yes its your right; but while youre waiting, the officer wont be thinking that guy is a victim. All hes thinking about is that hes gonna have to work late because YOU shot some guy.

Your articulation later is TOO LATE. evidence that might have been found at the scene may be lost forever. While you are waiting the report is being written and once youre listed as a suspect nothing will change that.

Do what you want
I've got to say 'each to his own', even in this situation. But I think the guy who spills his guts without his attorney being present is setting himself up for a bigger problem. Being honest and forthcoming as to the basics, IE: name, rank, and serial number, my plan is to offer nothing more to the officer until and unless my attorney is present. jj
 
You should do what you think is best; but as I keep saying the report wont wait, in fact the poor patrol guy will be glad that you are waiting so he can get the report written and go home. He'll be happy to turn it over to the suits BUT once he lists YOU as anything other than VICTIM, theres no going back from that
Pete, I'm not sure where you're from and where you're referring to in all this, but I do know where I'm from and referring to and it ain't nothing like I'm reading here.
 
If concerned your caliber choice will be targeted by a crappy prosecutor, I’ve always heard choosing the caliber local PD uses is easy to defend. Granted, the chances of finding any agency still using the .357 Magnum are small.
However…

Yes , that * used to * be a sometimes useful thing .

But nowadays , you're hard pressed to find an agency Not using 9mm . But it's also very popular for general public carry.

So potentially, one could base their Carry Ammo upon the Duty Load of either their Local Agency , or that of the Regionally Dominant Large Agency . ( Of course , that's if those LE agencies didn't make stupid choices )
 
This whole thing about calibers is a tempest in a teacup. It misses the key factor, which is, was the use of force legally justified? Was it reasonable and necessary? Were you in fear of death or grievous bodily harm to yourself or others? If the answer is yes, whether you use a .22 or an F350 Super Duty has no bearing on guilt. Certainly if it was not justified, a prosecuutor or plaintiff's attorney might use your weapon of choice as an indication of your pre-formed intent, but that won't change the facts as to your justification for use of deadly force. Wearing a T Shirt with "Kill them all and let God sort them out" would probably be more harmful to your case than your choice of caliber.

To illustrate my point, stage 1 of Florida LEO annual qualification begins at 1 yard, draw and fire 3 rounds from the hip, then take a step back and fire 3 rounds point shoulder. That's 6 rounds usually done in 2-3 seconds and your opponent is probably finished but still upright to the end of it. Now the question is going to be, was employment of deadly force justified, not how many rounds were fired. On the other hand, if the suspect is down and out after the first three, the second 3 while he's on the ground and no longer a threat is not objectively reasonable. Caliber has no bearing on whether deadly force was justified to start with.
 
Pete, I'm not sure where you're from and where you're referring to in all this, but I do know where I'm from and referring to and it ain't nothing like I'm reading here.
Im retired from Bodymore Murderland. So you may live someplace else where cops are excited for that last minute call that keeps them from their personal life and home; but I dont know a place like that. You may live in a place where street cops are over joyed for you not to answer questions so they can complete a report and get it approved before they can go home; but I dont know a place like that. and maybe you live in a place where when you say "lawyer" cops dont think guilty or at least something to hide; but I dont know a place like that

Now no working cop will admit any of that to anyone who isnt "on the job"; but Id suggest to at least consider it might be true.



The responding officer writes the initial report. He decides who to put in the VICTIM block and who gets listed as the SUSPECT. Once you are in the suspect category nothing short of Baby Jesus coming from Heaven can change that. You may or may not be prosecuted but you will always be a suspect. So you can choose to talk to him early, without an attorney, and get your side of the event fresh in his mind or NOT its up to you
 
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This whole thing about calibers is a tempest in a teacup. It misses the key factor, which is, was the use of force legally justified? Was it reasonable and necessary? Were you in fear of death or grievous bodily harm to yourself or others? If the answer is yes, whether you use a .22 or an F350 Super Duty has no bearing on guilt. Certainly if it was not justified, a prosecuutor or plaintiff's attorney might use your weapon of choice as an indication of your pre-formed intent, but that won't change the facts as to your justification for use of deadly force.
EXACTLY
 
This whole thing about calibers is a tempest in a teacup. It misses the key factor, which is, was the use of force legally justified? Was it reasonable and necessary? Were you in fear of death or grievous bodily harm to yourself or others? If the answer is yes, whether you use a .22 or an F350 Super Duty has no bearing on guilt. Certainly if it was not justified, a prosecuutor or plaintiff's attorney might use your weapon of choice as an indication of your pre-formed intent, but that won't change the facts as to your justification for use of deadly force. Wearing a T Shirt with "Kill them all and let God sort them out" would probably be more harmful to your case than your choice of caliber.

To illustrate my point, stage 1 of Florida LEO annual qualification begins at 1 yard, draw and fire 3 rounds from the hip, then take a step back and fire 3 rounds point shoulder. That's 6 rounds usually done in 2-3 seconds and your opponent is probably finished but still upright to the end of it. Now the question is going to be, was employment of deadly force justified, not how many rounds were fired. On the other hand, if the suspect is down and out after the first three, the second 3 while he's on the ground and no longer a threat is not objectively reasonable. Caliber has no bearing on whether deadly force was justified to start with.
C'mon Hayes, nobody is dumb enough to try to take somebody out with an F350 Super Duty. Heck, I've heard even farmers who lose a chicken or two to a Super Duty runnin' over 'em don't get upset about it. They'll just tell you that any danged chicken that can't get out of the way of a Super Duty ain't worth much anyhow!!! ---- I'm jus' kiddn' all y'all Ford lovers, but only by a little bit.
 
C'mon Hayes, nobody is dumb enough to try to take somebody out with an F350 Super Duty. Heck, I've heard even farmers who lose a chicken or two to a Super Duty runnin' over 'em don't get upset about it. They'll just tell you that any danged chicken that can't get out of the way of a Super Duty ain't worth much anyhow!!! ---- I'm jus' kiddn' all y'all Ford lovers, but only by a little bit.
Well, you do have to clean out the treads of those Michelins after running over something, and that's chore!
 
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Yes , that * used to * be a sometimes useful thing .

But nowadays , you're hard pressed to find an agency Not using 9mm . But it's also very popular for general public carry.
That’s why I said the chances of finding such are small, and to say someone who carries a .357 off duty. I know many LEOs who have carried a .357 off duty.
 
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