Nope. I haven't given up on my quest to make the Berry's 38/357 125 grain flat point plated bullets shoot well. I somehow managed to let almost the the entire month of May slip by without working on it, but I'm back at it again.
What I'm finding (I think, more testing is needed) is that these slugs want to be seated DEEP into the case. I am now seating them at a COAL of 1.340" in 38 Special cases trimmed METICULOUSLY to 1.145" +/- .001" . Cases are measured and trimmed only AFTER resizing and flaring case mouth. The reason for taking so much care is that the 1.340" COAL puts entire shank of the bullet inside the case with the bullet shoulder (where the shank bearing surface meets the ogive) just a smidge below the case mouth. Once the case is charged, primed and bullet is seated, I apply a normal roll crimp OVER that shoulder. When doing this, beware that the effect of the roll crimp over the bullet shoulder is that the bullet is nudged a bit deeper by the crimping action by about .002" to .004", so COAL after crimping is 1.336" to 1.338".
Of course, moving the bullet seating depth from a COAL of 1.450" all the way down to 1.340" is certainly a significant reduction in case volume and a corresponding increase in load density. Thus, it calls for re-testing my charge ladder. I have done so with one powder now, Hodgdon's TiteGroup. I've shot the entire span of the 38 Special START load given by Hodgdons all the way up to their peak 38 Special +P charge (for a 125 grain bullet). I use .2 grain increments between each charge weight "ladder rung". I'm testing right now only in a singe revolver, a Ruger Blackhawk with a 6 1/2" barrel. Velocities range all the way from about 700 fps at the bottom level up to just a shade over 1000 fps at the peak 38 +P charge weight. Primers look good throughout the range, the fired cases extract from the cylinder charge holes smoothly, and the cases do not show much in the way of looking "smoked up" (which says the cases are obturating very well).
But here's the good part: Extreme velocity spread up and down the entire spectrum of charge weights plummeted from the completely unacceptable 150 - 200 fps level down (with a 1.450" COAL) to 50 - 60 fps (with a 1.340" COAL and substantial roll crimp), which is a shade less than my favored factory range ammo exhibits. Ogg very happy now.
I'm now curious if the reduced case capacity (from deeper bullet seating) is the main factor in the improved ES values, or if it is only the increased "grip" the cases have on the bullets with the deeper seating. I might run another ladder test with the bullet seating depth set to give a COAL of 1.390" or even 1.400" and a light taper crimp to see if the ES values stay low, or if they start to climb again.
What I'm finding (I think, more testing is needed) is that these slugs want to be seated DEEP into the case. I am now seating them at a COAL of 1.340" in 38 Special cases trimmed METICULOUSLY to 1.145" +/- .001" . Cases are measured and trimmed only AFTER resizing and flaring case mouth. The reason for taking so much care is that the 1.340" COAL puts entire shank of the bullet inside the case with the bullet shoulder (where the shank bearing surface meets the ogive) just a smidge below the case mouth. Once the case is charged, primed and bullet is seated, I apply a normal roll crimp OVER that shoulder. When doing this, beware that the effect of the roll crimp over the bullet shoulder is that the bullet is nudged a bit deeper by the crimping action by about .002" to .004", so COAL after crimping is 1.336" to 1.338".
Of course, moving the bullet seating depth from a COAL of 1.450" all the way down to 1.340" is certainly a significant reduction in case volume and a corresponding increase in load density. Thus, it calls for re-testing my charge ladder. I have done so with one powder now, Hodgdon's TiteGroup. I've shot the entire span of the 38 Special START load given by Hodgdons all the way up to their peak 38 Special +P charge (for a 125 grain bullet). I use .2 grain increments between each charge weight "ladder rung". I'm testing right now only in a singe revolver, a Ruger Blackhawk with a 6 1/2" barrel. Velocities range all the way from about 700 fps at the bottom level up to just a shade over 1000 fps at the peak 38 +P charge weight. Primers look good throughout the range, the fired cases extract from the cylinder charge holes smoothly, and the cases do not show much in the way of looking "smoked up" (which says the cases are obturating very well).
But here's the good part: Extreme velocity spread up and down the entire spectrum of charge weights plummeted from the completely unacceptable 150 - 200 fps level down (with a 1.450" COAL) to 50 - 60 fps (with a 1.340" COAL and substantial roll crimp), which is a shade less than my favored factory range ammo exhibits. Ogg very happy now.
I'm now curious if the reduced case capacity (from deeper bullet seating) is the main factor in the improved ES values, or if it is only the increased "grip" the cases have on the bullets with the deeper seating. I might run another ladder test with the bullet seating depth set to give a COAL of 1.390" or even 1.400" and a light taper crimp to see if the ES values stay low, or if they start to climb again.
Last edited:
