TEXASforLIFE
Ronin
Not familiar with any saint ARs.
Rear sight
- Thread starter mwilliams
- Start date
TEXASforLIFE
Ronin
Just an observation, no apology needed!
Keystone19250
SAINT
All good my apology was meant for the owner of the gun, didn’t want him to think I was disrespecting him.
Bassbob
Emissary
I suspected as much, hence why I asked for an overhead picture. I recommend better sights because the OP isn't planning on putting an optic on it. Less than optimal BUIS is one thing, but primary sights is a different story.
@mwilliams , I know you shared a picture of your current rear sight's maxed-left windage adjustment, but as with a few of the other members who've contributed replies so far, I'd like to get a look at what's forward of the sight as well.
Specifically, one of the current questions is whether your front sight post or gas-block/sight-base is askew, causing you to need to compensate with the rear windage.
It's my hope that you can get some pictures (one from muzzle towards receiver, trying to look down the length of the muzzle so as to verify gas-block/sight-base alignment, another from the top of the front receiver, where it joins the handguard as it looks forward towards the muzzle - the former should help identify front sight alignment issues if your Saint model is one which utilizes a front-sight-base or a gas-block base, while the latter should help identify a hand guard [on which your front sight will be mounted] alignment issue, in case your Saint is one which utilizes a free-floating handguard), but as you work towards that (or even in lieu of it, I'm wondering if you would please address a couple of other questions from me, too?
First, as some others have wondered, have you insured that your sights are mounted correctly?
- The reason I ask is because even slight miscues here can potentially cause quite a bit of heartache: so at the risk of offending you, I'd thought that I'd just ask and get it out of the way.
I hope you can understand.Second, how are you checking zero? Is this by actually printing shots downrange (and if so, how far?), or is this with a bore-sighting device?
- If you're using a bore-sighting device and/or are at shorter distances (i.e. using a 25-yard zero or using a 10-yard-for-25 offset target), I'd like to ask you to go for a 50 or 100 yard, physical (rounds downrange) zero. Most mass-market boresight devices and methods leave much to be desired (yes, I use one, but only for the purposes of helping me "get on paper" faster, when I actually take the gun out to the range to zero or verify zero)...but again, I apologize if you are already using a rigorous laser-boresight system and methodology:
- https://primaryandsecondary.com/the-laser-bore-sight/
- https://primaryandsecondary.com/what-is-a-bore-sight-offset/
- https://primaryandsecondary.com/even-more-on-boresighting/
- https://primaryandsecondary.com/how-to-zero-the-laser-boresight-to-a-weapon/
Third, what type of stock does your Saint use? On the Springfield Armory website, I currently see the BCM Gunfighter Mod 0 and the B5 Systems Bravo being offered. Particularly if it's the latter - and I see from another of your previous posts that you also own other ARs - have you had any previous experience with AR15 stocks with a pronounced sloped cheek weld, such as the LMT SOPMOD?
- While I love the way sloped stocks cheek-up, the problem for me is that I have rather meaty jowls.
In-practice, this translates to a need for me to really press-into the surface of sloped stocks a bit harder than what I find optimal to otherwise achieve best precision and accuracy at-distance (i.e. that "fall asleep on the stock" pressure). - I actually found this out the first time I took two of my own ARs out to re-verify zero: a day that started out in a rather frustrating manner as I had a lot of difficulty getting a consistent zero between the guns. I couldn't figure out why, in-part, that I was actually seeing exactly what you're seeing above - that I was coming close to maxing-out left-travel on one setup/gun (my LMT MRP CQB16). It was only as I'd stepped back from the guns and was taking a break that this difference dawned on me, and when I worked to insure that my aiming eye was actually in-line with the bore and sight axis (by pressing harder-in with the cheek), that I started to see results that were congruent with my other gun, which used a stock that didn't have a cheek slope.
Attachments
I will try to shift it
Thanks
Did not think it. I appreciate the suggestions
I took the rear sight off, and it is not possible to shift the sight
Thanks for the suggestion
I sighted it in at the range, 100 meters.@mwilliams , I know you shared a picture of your current rear sight's maxed-left windage adjustment, but as with a few of the other members who've contributed replies so far, I'd like to get a look at what's forward of the sight as well.
Specifically, one of the current questions is whether your front sight post or gas-block/sight-base is askew, causing you to need to compensate with the rear windage.
It's my hope that you can get some pictures (one from muzzle towards receiver, trying to look down the length of the muzzle so as to verify gas-block/sight-base alignment, another from the top of the front receiver, where it joins the handguard as it looks forward towards the muzzle - the former should help identify front sight alignment issues if your Saint model is one which utilizes a front-sight-base or a gas-block base, while the latter should help identify a hand guard [on which your front sight will be mounted] alignment issue, in case your Saint is one which utilizes a free-floating handguard), but as you work towards that (or even in lieu of it, I'm wondering if you would please address a couple of other questions from me, too?
First, as some others have wondered, have you insured that your sights are mounted correctly?
- The reason I ask is because even slight miscues here can potentially cause quite a bit of heartache: so at the risk of offending you, I'd thought that I'd just ask and get it out of the way.
Second, how are you checking zero? Is this by actually printing shots downrange (and if so, how far?), or is this with a bore-sighting device?
- If you're using a bore-sighting device and/or are at shorter distances (i.e. using a 25-yard zero or using a 10-yard-for-25 offset target), I'd like to ask you to go for a 50 or 100 yard, physical (rounds downrange) zero. Most mass-market boresight devices and methods leave much to be desired (yes, I use one, but only for the purposes of helping me "get on paper" faster, when I actually take the gun out to the range to zero or verify zero)...but again, I apologize if you are already using a rigorous laser-boresight system and methodology:
- With shorter distances, my fear is that you're at such short distances that you're concealing fundamental issues that would otherwise have been seen at more typical zero distances. So, again, at the risk of offending (for which I sincerely apologize, if I do, for it is not my intention to do so), it's something that I'd like to confirm, before we go any farther.
- https://primaryandsecondary.com/the-laser-bore-sight/
- https://primaryandsecondary.com/what-is-a-bore-sight-offset/
- https://primaryandsecondary.com/even-more-on-boresighting/
- https://primaryandsecondary.com/how-to-zero-the-laser-boresight-to-a-weapon/
Third, what type of stock does your Saint use? On the Springfield Armory website, I currently see the BCM Gunfighter Mod 0 and the B5 Systems Bravo being offered. Particularly if it's the latter - and I see from another of your previous posts that you also own other ARs - have you had any previous experience with AR15 stocks with a pronounced sloped cheek weld, such as the LMT SOPMOD?
- While I love the way sloped stocks cheek-up, the problem for me is that I have rather meaty jowls.
- I actually found this out the first time I took two of my own ARs out to re-verify zero: a day that started out in a rather frustrating manner as I had a lot of difficulty getting a consistent zero between the guns. I couldn't figure out why, in-part, that I was actually seeing exactly what you're seeing above - that I was coming close to maxing-out left-travel on one setup/gun (my LMT MRP CQB16). It was only as I'd stepped back from the guns and was taking a break that this difference dawned on me, and when I worked to insure that my aiming eye was actually in-line with the bore and sight axis (by pressing harder-in with the cheek), that I started to see results that were congruent with my other gun, which used a stock that didn't have a cheek slope.
Cheek weld could be an issue as it slopes different than any of my stocks on my other rifles.
I will check/adjust it when I am back at the range this next week . Thank you for the suggestions
Happy New Year
TEXASforLIFE
Ronin
Looks like the handguard is in the 11:30 to 11:45 ish position? It's not fully aligned with the upper receiver.
TEXASforLIFE
Ronin
After enlarging pic I might be wrong in alignment?
HansGruber
Ronin
So, a gas block rail with a folder.
The handguard looks canted, as does the front sight.
Something is not right with that rifle; send it back.
The handguard looks canted, as does the front sight.
Something is not right with that rifle; send it back.
Handguard alignment should be irrelevant with this model, right?.
It's not the free-float rail, this model uses the standard delta-ring and front handguard cap to-capture. The front sight itself is not affected by the handguard or its positioning.
-----
But the front sight base....
@mwilliams , what we're looking for is (not) this -
^ This picture, stolen from a post/thread on AR15.com, is a gun with a full front sight base - on which it is easier to see the clocking/cant.
What we need to insure is that your gas block, on which the front sight is mounted, is not clocked/canted similarly to one side or another. In other words, when you deploy the front sight, that front sight post should be perfectly at the 12-o'clock.
Although your current pictures improve upon the previous, it's still somewhat hard to see whether or not this critical area shows cant/clocking.
If you can, it may help visualize clocking/cant by removing your handguard.
It's not the free-float rail, this model uses the standard delta-ring and front handguard cap to-capture. The front sight itself is not affected by the handguard or its positioning.
-----
But the front sight base....
@mwilliams , what we're looking for is (not) this -
^ This picture, stolen from a post/thread on AR15.com, is a gun with a full front sight base - on which it is easier to see the clocking/cant.
What we need to insure is that your gas block, on which the front sight is mounted, is not clocked/canted similarly to one side or another. In other words, when you deploy the front sight, that front sight post should be perfectly at the 12-o'clock.
Although your current pictures improve upon the previous, it's still somewhat hard to see whether or not this critical area shows cant/clocking.
If you can, it may help visualize clocking/cant by removing your handguard.
Keystone19250
SAINT
A question and a suggestion, are you using a mobile device or a computer to communicate on the forum?
When you attach a file, (picture) try to post it full size not a thumbnail. When you click insert it gives you a choice, touch full size, this will give us a better quality picture.
I'm confused.... it's my understanding that the gas block on both the Saint (configured as-such) and the M&P Sport II is still used in the case of both of these carbines to anchor the front handguard cap. The cap captures the handguard on the front end, while the delta ring captures the rear.
Or maybe I am just confused of exactly which variant of the guns we're talking about, here?
Would you mind kindly posting a picture?