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RemArms in Hot Water with United Mine Workers of America Union.

Hi David,

I completely understand your view. But a counterargument could be crafted that in a capitalist economy, laws of supply and demand determine value of labor. Moreover, laws protecting workers along with employer strict liability would accord workers recourse in court for labor law violations. Employers have a pecuniary interest in protecting their employees. Finally, illegal and veritable extortionist acts of especially teacher unions require stict law enforcement monitoring. Teachers who use children as fungible tools for what is really extortion militate against their integrity.

I don't know the right answer. But I do know from an historical perspective that best intentions often spawn unintended consequences.
 
SATRP said:
Hi David,

I completely understand your view. But a counterargument could be crafted that in a capitalist economy, laws of supply and demand determine value of labor. Moreover, laws protecting workers along with employer strict liability would accord workers recourse in court for labor law violations. Employers have a pecuniary interest in protecting their employees. Finally, illegal and veritable extortionist acts of especially teacher unions require stict law enforcement monitoring. Teachers who use children as fungible tools for what is really extortion militate against their integrity.

I don't know the right answer. But I do know from an historical perspective that best intentions often spawn unintended consequences.
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Thanks
 
What does the miners union have to do with Hoffa or the corrupt labor unions of the 1900s ?

By the way, the mob run labor unions that built Las Vegas were out of business completely by the mid 1980s.
 
SATRP said:
Why would you assume that Socratic debate would indicate picking a fight? Is that reasonable and logical in your mind?

Do you really have a degree in history?

You should have studied logic. Extremism and the bandwagon effect are two more logical fallacies in your repertoire of sorely limited debating skills.

Among the most corrupt criminal syndicates in America were labor unions.

Union members were duped by their corrupt, criminal leaders to commit crimes as serious as murder. And you're defending that?

Union leaders were far more concerned with amassing power than protecting workers.

You really should concentrate on refuting theses rather that trying form a bandwagon that no one will join.

I'm guessing that you missed history instruction about the fallacy of assessing historical events outside of the time of the event and the prevailing zeitgeist. It's a very common SJW/Antifa/BLM strategy: judging history out of historical context.
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So I guess you forgot about the Pinkerton's? History is wonderful when you can omit what you want.
 
Are there shady people in the unions? Yes! Do you unions protect worthless dirtbags who don't pull their own weight? Yes. That said, the unions have their place. Collective bargaining, better working conditions, apprenticeships to promote and grow the craft as well as fair treatment in the workplace. Is it always fair? No. But it's better than "at will"
 
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Talyn said:
It's not you Anni. We know who the trouble makers are.
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I'm thinking that you should look in the mirror.

Like anything else, there are good and bad. I've been in a couple of unions and they were great. Not antagonistic. Labor & management worked together to create superior products in a timely & profitable manner.
 
terdog said:
I'm thinking that you should look in the mirror.

Like anything else, there are good and bad. I've been in a couple of unions and they were great. Not antagonistic. Labor & management worked together to create superior products in a timely & profitable manner.
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WTF are you talking about? The post you quoted had nothing to do with unions.
 
I’ve never been a member of a union however I’ve been in management positions and supervised union employees and they are people like everyone else trying to make a living and support their families. That being said some unions are very proactive and work with the company to promote a safe and productive workplace and from one experience they fight tooth and nail to cause division.

@Annihilator your threads are great so don’t stop because one member of this forum has nothing better to do then cause issues.

@SATRP this forum is sponsored by Springfield Armory and members here respect that however your low level of decorum and disrespect to other members is pathetic. Please move on to another forum that will enjoy the 💩 you enjoy shoveling.
 
terdog said:
WTF are YOU talking about? Apparently you have an inability to discuss more than 1 subject at a time. That quote was in fact in this thread.
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Yeah, Talyn was referring to those of us who get into arguments on here, not unions. I think there was a misunderstanding between you and Bassbob about that. Talyn wasn't talking about unions being the trouble makers, he was talking about a couple members (I'm probably one of them) that get feisty. Yes, the quote is on here, no he wasn't talking about unions. Simple misunderstanding.
 
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Just a thought!

Does anyone come to this forum intending to jump Into an argument? At one point a vast majority of the membership seemed to get along just fine with some respectable disagreement occasionally now it seems more and more threads are turning into a melting pot of posters going back and forth.

Is anyone aware there are trolls on the internet that will do what they can to incite a negative response from people for their own enjoyment?

A fire won't last and spread without fuel so when we start going at each other it spreads and spills over into other threads which isn't fair to the original thread poster nor is it welcoming to new members who may have heard about how awesome the SA forum is with their respectable members.

We need to realize that a keyboard fight isn't going to win any battles and the best way to address the posts you find absurd, crazy, or offensive in some way cannot really effect you physically so why not ignore them instead of feeding the fire?

Ask yourself what makes you respond to the negative posts, is it insecurities, pride, or do you just enjoy the safety of an anonymous long distance virtual fist fight?

I take no sides with my statements and this is meant to be food for thought for all and I mean this in the most neutral way possible so if you are offended @Annihilator is offering free hugs.....JK Anni...😜
 
terdog said:
WTF are YOU talking about? Apparently you have an inability to discuss more than 1 subject at a time. That quote was in fact in this thread.
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Insults. Nice. Maybe try actually reading the thread and paying attention before responding. Or at least before responding with insults.
Reading comprehension is important on Internet forums.
 
10mmLife said:
Just a thought!

Does anyone come to this forum intending to jump Into an argument? At one point a vast majority of the membership seemed to get along just fine with some respectable disagreement occasionally now it seems more and more threads are turning into a melting pot of posters going back and forth.

Is anyone aware there are trolls on the internet that will do what they can to incite a negative response from people for their own enjoyment?

A fire won't last and spread without fuel so when we start going at each other it spreads and spills over into other threads which isn't fair to the original thread poster nor is it welcoming to new members who may have heard about how awesome the SA forum is with their respectable members.

We need to realize that a keyboard fight isn't going to win any battles and the best way to address the posts you find absurd, crazy, or offensive in some way cannot really effect you physically so why not ignore them instead of feeding the fire?

Ask yourself what makes you respond to the negative posts, is it insecurities, pride, or do you just enjoy the safety of an anonymous long distance virtual fist fight?

I take no sides with my statements and this is meant to be food for thought for all and I mean this in the most neutral way possible so if you are offended @Annihilator is offering free hugs.....JK Anni...😜
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I accept that rebuke. I'll be nicer going forward :)
 
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