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Ruger-Marlins vs. Remington-Marlins (i.e. Remlins)

wmg1299

wmg1299

Professional
As a fan of Marlin lever-guns I was quite distressed to hear about Reminton filing for bankruptcy. Remington has now filed notice with the Bankruptcy Court in Alabama that Ruger is the top bidder to purchase Marlin (I can post a link to the court filing if anybody wants, but is 1,498 pages long). If the court accepts the filing, Ruger will own Marlin. I remember the awful reliability of the original "Remlin" products. Do you guys think that Ruger will restore Marlin to it's former glory, or are we going to have to deal with several years worth of "Ruglin?" products that pale in comparison to the originals?
 
wmg1299 said:
As a fan of Marlin lever-guns I was quite distressed to hear about Reminton filing for bankruptcy. Remington has now filed notice with the Bankruptcy Court in Alabama that Ruger is the top bidder to purchase Marlin (I can post a link to the court filing if anybody wants, but is 1,498 pages long). If the court accepts the filing, Ruger will own Marlin. I remember the awful reliability of the original "Remlin" products. Do you guys think that Ruger will restore Marlin to it's former glory, or are we going to have to deal with several years worth of "Ruglin?" products that pale in comparison to the originals?
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Quality will suffer ...
 
IMO, the whole Cerberus Capital Management/Freedom Group Inc. has been a fiasco.

The hole Remington got dug into was because of the trigger litigation, then Cerberus Capital Management came in and squeezed as much $$ and QC mgt. out of Remington. Unfortunately, the trigger issue (plus some "stinker" designs that fell flat) is the black-hole that Remington can't seem to get out of.

As I understand, when Marlin came under Remington's wing, and Marlin ops were moved ALOT of revamping had to be done to bring Marlin production into more modern manufacturing, to the credit of whomever managed the take-over.

But, the retained product-line literally had to be re-engineered for more modern production, but Marlin went thru a few painful QC years that I believe have been resolved.

I bought several Marlins during those years and did not buy a bad one, mainly because I inspected every one I bought.

I think the bad QC years are over, and if Ruger decides to buy Marlin, then that will be good for both since that will give the conglomerate more diversity and financial stability. Under the Ruger corporate umbrella maybe a few discontinued/limited production Marlin rifles will be brought back.

I just wish that Remington can retain it's product line because I have traditionally liked several product. But I suspect that the Co. will be broken up in pieces, and the ammunition line will be highly sought after.

My .02
 
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Talyn said:
I just wish that Remington can retain it's product line because I have traditionally liked several product. But I suspect that the Co. will be broken up in pieces, and the ammunition line will be highly sought after.

My .02
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If the current plan is accepted by the court, Remington's holdings would be split as follows:

(1) Ruger buys Marlin; (2) Vista Outdoors buys the Lonoke Ammo Business; (3) JJE Capital Holdings buys DPMS, H&R, Stormlake, AAC, and Parker; (4) Franklin Armory Holdings buys Bushmaster; (5) Sportsman's Warehouse buys Tapco; (6) Sierra Bullets buys Barnes Ammo; and (7) the Roundhill Group buys what is referred to as "non-Marlin firearms business".

I am not familiar with all of the corporate names used by the buyers. I'm assuming the "non-Marlin firearm business" refers to Remington branded firearms, and not the smaller companies whose assets are being purchased by other buyers, but have not read the full 1,498 pages to find out for sure. The Sandy Hook plaintiffs will try to stop the bankruptcy, but there is a decent chance that the court will allow the sale.
 
IMO, the highest value part is the ammo business, especially since Remington has one of on;y three factories that make primers in the country.

I hope the court get's the trigger issue resolve once & for all.

BTW - Having bought several Rem M700's during the past few years I've never had an QC issues with any of them.

Especially, the last one is excellent, albeit a limited edition.

However, I have ungraded them to various degrees.
 
xdman said:
I thought Palmetto State Armory was also on the list to buy Remington Ammo.
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The notice lists the "Successful Bidder" and a "Backup Bidder" in each category. The listed Backup Bidder for the Lonoke Ammo Business is Sig Sauer. I'm not sure how many total bidders there were in each category.
 
xdman said:
Your wrong on that, Palmetto is bigger than the stores or website. They bid on the Ammo and DPMS, Palmetto‘s parent company won DPMS, H&R, Stormlake, AAC, and Parker.
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Semantics.

PSA isn't bigger since it's a subsidiary of JJE Capital Holdings, were the $$ is. Besides the party is already over.

The OP already listed....

If the current plan is accepted by the court, Remington's holdings would be split as follows:

(1) Ruger buys Marlin; (2) Vista Outdoors buys the Lonoke Ammo Business; (3) JJE Capital Holdings buys DPMS, H&R, Stormlake, AAC, and Parker; ...

PSA's "Parent Company" (JJE Capital Holdings) won DPMS, etc. , and bid on the ammo business.

So the parent company picked that up. But did it win the ammo business? No. Vista Outdoors buys the Lonoke Ammo Business, with Sig USA as the back-up if Vista changes it's mind, or something else happens.

So, PSA's JJE parent was down the bidder list, but I'll bet PSA wasn't doing separate bidding as far as we know (as per the OPs comments that other bidders weren't listed), and would JJE allow PSA to go it alone on bidding? It's all official according to the plan being presented to the court.

Official word here...

Remington Asset Bids Revealed: Ruger Gets Marlin, Vista Gets Remington Ammo, Franklin Armory Gets Bushmaster, Sierra Gets Barnes

This came out on Sept 9th.

Remington Agrees to Sell Ammunition Business, Including Barnes Bullets, for $65 Million

BUT.... UPDATE: The Wall Street Journal report on which this post was based was premature. JJE Capital Holdings has put in a bid for Remington’s ammunition business. However we’ve spoken to Remington and the JJE bid is one of a number that have been received, both for Remington as a whole and for individual business lines. Most haven’t been made public yet. The bankruptcy court has until September 17th to accumulate all bids and then will finalize the sale(s) on September 24th.

and... (Sept 9th) The JJE offer came in the form of a stalking-horse bid, setting a floor on the sale price for Remington’s ammunition business,...

So JJE set the bottom price and was out bid by Vista, & apparently also by Sig USA.

Hopefully, Ruger will bring back the Marlin 39A into regular production vs. a custom shop item now.

For those that want all the gory details...

Remington Chapter 11 Court doc pdf.
 
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Talyn said:
PSA doesn't have the $$ to do that. I don't see PSA outbidding either Vista nor Sig USA.
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Your wrong on that, Palmetto is bigger than the stores or website. They bid on the Ammo and DPMS, Palmetto‘s parent company won DPMS, H&R, Stormlake, AAC, and Parker.
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Actually I'm not since both Vista and Sig USA outbid JJE (aka PSA).
 
Talyn said:
IMO, the whole Cerberus Capital Management/Freedom Group Inc. has been a fiasco.

The hole Remington got dug into was because of the trigger litigation, then Cerberus Capital Management came in and squeezed as much $$ and QC mgt. out of Remington. Unfortunately, the trigger issue (plus some "stinker" designs that fell flat) is the black-hole that Remington can't seem to get out of.

As I understand, when Marlin came under Remington's wing, and Marlin ops were moved ALOT of revamping had to be done to bring Marlin production into more modern manufacturing, to the credit of whomever managed the take-over.

But, the retained product-line literally had to be re-engineered for more modern production, but Marlin went thru a few painful QC years that I believe have been resolved.

I bought several Marlins during those years and did not buy a bad one, mainly because I inspected every one I bought.

I think the bad QC years are over, and if Ruger decides to buy Marlin, then that will be good for both since that will give the conglomerate more diversity and financial stability. Under the Ruger corporate umbrella maybe a few discontinued/limited production Marlin rifles will be brought back.

I just wish that Remington can retain it's product line because I have traditionally liked several product. But I suspect that the Co. will be broken up in pieces, and the ammunition line will be highly sought after.

My .02
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Talyn some of what you said I agree with when it comes to how Cerberus managed Remington during the transition of Marlin to Remington ownership but you are flat out wrong stating that Marlin had QC issues or was behind in modern manufacturing. I worked for Marlin for 15 years and was front and center during the takeover and personally watched as Remington set Marlin back years both in production and quality control by making changes that made absolutely no sense and spent money to just spend money that created production back logs and no quality control whatsoever, they also LIED on a daily basis on their intention to keep Marlin in North Haven CT while they were working behind the scenes with the Town of N.H. To receive millions of dollars in tax credits to move Marlin to there campus in Iliad NY. I had friends that were part of that move and heard reports of how that campus was a DUMP and had no modern infrastructure to handle manufacturing. I have not been following the current climat surrounding Remingtons bankruptcy and yes if Marlin is purchased by anyone there will be some transitional growing pains but anyone will be better then Remington Arms. As far as the man who worked for Remington and managed the take over I met him many times and everyone including myself was totally amazed at how ignorant he was in making firearms, his decisions and mandates on how we were to work made absolutely no sense whatsoever, it was almost like he wanted the company to fail. I wouldn’t trust him to run a company that made garden hoses.
 
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HansGruber said:
I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but...I've always thought that if the anti-gun community came up with a long-game plan to get a lot of money out of the firearms industry, then wreck it...Cerebrus/Freedom Group is a shining example of how to do it.
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You are correct Hans however it was always thought that if Cerberus had purchased Marlin instead of Remington then the company (Marlin) would still be operating successfully. It was Remington management that brought Remington down.
 
Keystone19250 said:
You are correct Hans however it was always thought that if Cerberus had purchased Marlin instead of Remington then the company (Marlin) would still be operating successfully. It was Remington management that brought Remington down.
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But I do believe Remington was dancing to C/FG's tune...

Not one of the companies (other than R/UMC ammo) really prospered, or was thought to be better after C/FG got involved with them...and several gun companies plain disappeared (ParaOrdnance, for instance). DPMS completely crapped the bed, quality-wise, after they left MN for AR...Bushmaster went to crap as well (their best employees went on to found Wyndham).

Anything C/FG touched went to crap.
 
HansGruber said:
But I do believe Remington was dancing to C/FG's tune...

Not one of the companies (other than R/UMC ammo) really prospered, or was thought to be better after C/FG got involved with them...and several gun companies plain disappeared (ParaOrdnance, for instance). DPMS completely crapped the bed, quality-wise, after they left MN for AR...Bushmaster went to crap as well (their best employees went on to found Wyndham).

Anything C/FG touched went to crap.
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Once again I agree with you completely.
Cerburus/Freedom Group were an organization to buy cheap and dismantle to make money period. And now Remington, “even though C/FG”
Are no longer in the picture is failing.
 
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