testtest

Shooting with small handguns

I shoot mostly with sub compacts and I have also put about 250 rounds through my micro compact S&W bodyguard. The bodyguard took a little practice for me to hit a soccer ball sized target at 30ft consistently. The combination of the 10lb plus trigger and tiny stature of the pistol can make this gun particularly difficult to shoot accurately for most shooters without practice.
 
Thanks for a relevant article on the most common type of gun in the public today (my opinion) and sales continue rise. The gun manufacturers are constantly trying to make smaller more capacity guns for the public. I practice with my sub 4" guns regularly and focus on efficient groups. I use 3" targets out to 7 yards. I will say my Shield PC .45 and my new XDe 3.8 are very good shooters and easy to control.
 
I dumped the LCP and switched to the Shield. Was a great pistol, things changed and I needed to make a change and carry a G26 now, but was very pleased with the shield.

I’m pretty happy with the 2 I have ( PC .40 and M 2.0 .45). I had an LCP. I shot it once and hated it. Never carried it even once. I gave it to my daughter. It’s her back up. She carries a LC9S.
 
I prefer a compact / sub compact (4 H&K's) for the most part. That said, I have 1500 flawless rounds through my Sig P365 which is surprising easy to shoot and slowly working it's way into my rotation. When it is belt carried I use the 12 round mag. For pocket carry the 10 round with the pinky extension.
 
The lack of a thick grip and sometimes having a finger or two (Bodyguard) dangling under the frame takes a little practice to get used to.
The lack of a thick grip and sometimes having a finger or two (Bodyguard) dangling under the frame takes a little practice to get used to.
I agree !!
I have a Model 36 and the original grips are a bit small for my hands.
I tried Pachmyr grips they work,but they are butt ugly.
I bought a cheap set of wood grips at a gun show and the thicker grip feels good, next I will look for a nicer set.

IMG_20151216_111207357.jpg
 
You can train to be proficient with anything.

^ And this, of-course, is both the long and short of it.

Put in the work, and it will pay off.

My first non-beginner-level class was also the first class I shot with my EDC, which is a XDm9 3.8 Compact.

After the class lunch break, I decided to have a go at it with this smaller gun versus what I'd until that time had been exclusively shooting in classes, a 4.5-inch XDm9, which, unlike the 3.8 Compact, has a full-length grip frame along with the obviously slightly longer barrel/slide.

The difference was both quantifiable (time/score metric) as well as "palpable" in a subjective way.

I had until that time been told by more experienced shooters that "shooting two similar guns" - such as a full-size copy for range/training while carrying a smaller one for concealed-carry - "is more than good enough." My performance in that class instantly convinced me otherwise.

Since then, I've put in more hours and work with a carbon-copy of my EDC - a dedicated range/training-only copy (by that time, about a half-year since I obtained my Ohio-CHL, I'd already had 8,000+ rounds on my EDC, and I didn't want to put any more wear on it). Now, virtually every handgun training class I take is done with this weapon, as I want to play my cards the way they're dealt. :)


-----



I was always told it’s more difficult to shoot smaller guns then full size ones.

@Annihilator yes smaller guns are harder to manage. The felt recoil is heavier due to less weight of the gun, smaller barrel.

^ Absolutely +1.

And not only those factors above, but also because there is many times both an objective mis-fit of the gun to the shooter's hands as well as the perception in the shooter's mind that the tiny gun should be more difficult to handle.

"Fit" is oftentimes why folks will say that they feel one or another gun kicks/recoils harder than the other, while another shooter will maintain the exact opposite. To a degree, how well any one specific gun "fits" any of our unique hands is something that is actually objectively demonstrable, and is why various types of customization of the gun's grip/stocks works to improve the shooter's performance (i.e. everything from @Wirenut 's revolver above to @papa 's use of the Hogue on his LCP II to various thicknesses of panels on traditional 1911s to the various and sometimes drastic re-shaping of the grip of polymer-framed handguns). Like @Talyn above, my "tiny gun" choice is the Kahr PM9, to which I compare a range session to "work." This, versus the Kel-Tec PF9, with which a similar range-session - for me - becomes "less-than-pleasant work." ;)

That said, if you're able to adjust your grip (technique) to-suit and/or can simply "crush-out" the gun with raw physical strength, some degree of compensation should occur.

To a certain extent, I think that the way certain subsets of shooters have in the past been pushed towards smaller/lighter guns also helped push this idea above, that smaller/lighter guns are more difficult to shoot. Often given as gifts or are pushed-upon the shooter by aggressive counter-sales staff, these weapons seem to always be pushed to either the elderly or otherwise physically compromised, or those who simply don't have that much raw strength. Unfortunately, the ignorance of both the typically well-intentioned gift-giver and LGS sales staff confuses easy-to-carry/easy-to-conceal with easy-to-shoot/easy-to-manipulate. That flyweight snubby .38-Special or pocket-9 may not necessarily be too snappy for someone with great hand-strength, but for someone who can't hang on to the gun quite as well, that's a totally different story.

Similarly, manipulations of smaller pistols is also oftentimes harder. Slides can be harder to manipulate, and switchgear more awkwardly or even unconventionally placed. This compounds the need for both raw physical capabilities (strength and dexterity) as well as practice (to ingrain the different switchgear placement and techniques needed to properly accomplish the intended tasks).

The following two posts demonstrate perfectly these considerations:

The combination of the 10lb plus trigger and tiny stature of the pistol can make this gun particularly difficult to shoot accurately for most shooters without practice.

I agree, anything I can do to get as much meat on the grip really helps. I remember my 1st gen LCP, that long trigger press is what I believe what made it the most “difficult” to be accurate with it.

What @10mmLife wrote can be equated to the difference between shooting a rifle versus shooting a handgun. With the former, the increased points-of-contact as well as the favorable disparity between gun weight and trigger weight (the former much heavier than the latter) allows for easier execution of the fundamentals of marksmanship. Conversely, the decreased points-of-contact as well as the reversed - and no longer favorable - gun weight to trigger weight ratio accentuates any mistakes made in the execution of the fundamentals of marksmanship.

Similarly, @BangBang 's post points out the physical difficulties that arise for those with larger (or simply normal!) hand size and/or finger-length in their interaction with the gun's physical size and trigger path characteristics. We all know that the name of the game is to finish out the trigger path - beyond the break and through follow-through - without disturbing the sight package: this is made harder if your hand/finger must be contorted in an un-natural/un-comfortable way in order to achieve this goal. We've all see how a physically smaller shooter or someone with smaller hands can suffer for marksmanship and recoil control when the handgun is just too large for their hands - the same happens when we start to shrink that gun while increasing the stature/measure of the shooter.

Thanks for a relevant article on the most common type of gun in the public today (my opinion) and sales continue rise. The gun manufacturers are constantly trying to make smaller more capacity guns for the public.

Agreed.

Tiny guns are tiny - but particularly with the way the modern premium 9x19 defensive cartridges have been designed (not to mention the old and trusted standbys of both the .38-Special "wadcutter" as well as the specialized "short-barrel" loadings by companies like Speer), there's some really awesomely capable little guns out there. Similarly, I've witnessed excellent shooters display both outstanding marksmanship at longer distances (spray-paint cans at 35 yards, Kahr PM9 - sadly not me/mine 😅) and great recoil-control for defensive-style shooting (consistent sub-.2 splits at 5+ rds/string, A-zone, 5 yards, Sig P365).

It's definitely doable, but I believe that the shooter has to be willing to put in the work to both find the gun that best suits their hands and most capable of being successfully manipulated (and this is much easier today than it was even just 5 years ago, when there were not nearly as may guns on the shelves that fit into this category), and also to diligently practice their gunnery skills. 🎯 (y)
 
^ And this, of-course, is both the long and short of it.

Put in the work, and it will pay off.

My first non-beginner-level class was also the first class I shot with my EDC, which is a XDm9 3.8 Compact.

After the class lunch break, I decided to have a go at it with this smaller gun versus what I'd until that time had been exclusively shooting in classes, a 4.5-inch XDm9, which, unlike the 3.8 Compact, has a full-length grip frame along with the obviously slightly longer barrel/slide.

The difference was both quantifiable (time/score metric) as well as "palpable" in a subjective way.

I had until that time been told by more experienced shooters that "shooting two similar guns" - such as a full-size copy for range/training while carrying a smaller one for concealed-carry - "is more than good enough." My performance in that class instantly convinced me otherwise.

Since then, I've put in more hours and work with a carbon-copy of my EDC - a dedicated range/training-only copy (by that time, about a half-year since I obtained my Ohio-CHL, I'd already had 8,000+ rounds on my EDC, and I didn't want to put any more wear on it). Now, virtually every handgun training class I take is done with this weapon, as I want to play my cards the way they're dealt. :)


-----





^ Absolutely +1.

And not only those factors above, but also because there is many times both an objective mis-fit of the gun to the shooter's hands as well as the perception in the shooter's mind that the tiny gun should be more difficult to handle.

"Fit" is oftentimes why folks will say that they feel one or another gun kicks/recoils harder than the other, while another shooter will maintain the exact opposite. To a degree, how well any one specific gun "fits" any of our unique hands is something that is actually objectively demonstrable, and is why various types of customization of the gun's grip/stocks works to improve the shooter's performance (i.e. everything from @Wirenut 's revolver above to @papa 's use of the Hogue on his LCP II to various thicknesses of panels on traditional 1911s to the various and sometimes drastic re-shaping of the grip of polymer-framed handguns). Like @Talyn above, my "tiny gun" choice is the Kahr PM9, to which I compare a range session to "work." This, versus the Kel-Tec PF9, with which a similar range-session - for me - becomes "less-than-pleasant work." ;)

That said, if you're able to adjust your grip (technique) to-suit and/or can simply "crush-out" the gun with raw physical strength, some degree of compensation should occur.

To a certain extent, I think that the way certain subsets of shooters have in the past been pushed towards smaller/lighter guns also helped push this idea above, that smaller/lighter guns are more difficult to shoot. Often given as gifts or are pushed-upon the shooter by aggressive counter-sales staff, these weapons seem to always be pushed to either the elderly or otherwise physically compromised, or those who simply don't have that much raw strength. Unfortunately, the ignorance of both the typically well-intentioned gift-giver and LGS sales staff confuses easy-to-carry/easy-to-conceal with easy-to-shoot/easy-to-manipulate. That flyweight snubby .38-Special or pocket-9 may not necessarily be too snappy for someone with great hand-strength, but for someone who can't hang on to the gun quite as well, that's a totally different story.

Similarly, manipulations of smaller pistols is also oftentimes harder. Slides can be harder to manipulate, and switchgear more awkwardly or even unconventionally placed. This compounds the need for both raw physical capabilities (strength and dexterity) as well as practice (to ingrain the different switchgear placement and techniques needed to properly accomplish the intended tasks).

The following two posts demonstrate perfectly these considerations:





What @10mmLife wrote can be equated to the difference between shooting a rifle versus shooting a handgun. With the former, the increased points-of-contact as well as the favorable disparity between gun weight and trigger weight (the former much heavier than the latter) allows for easier execution of the fundamentals of marksmanship. Conversely, the decreased points-of-contact as well as the reversed - and no longer favorable - gun weight to trigger weight ratio accentuates any mistakes made in the execution of the fundamentals of marksmanship.

Similarly, @BangBang 's post points out the physical difficulties that arise for those with larger (or simply normal!) hand size and/or finger-length in their interaction with the gun's physical size and trigger path characteristics. We all know that the name of the game is to finish out the trigger path - beyond the break and through follow-through - without disturbing the sight package: this is made harder if your hand/finger must be contorted in an un-natural/un-comfortable way in order to achieve this goal. We've all see how a physically smaller shooter or someone with smaller hands can suffer for marksmanship and recoil control when the handgun is just too large for their hands - the same happens when we start to shrink that gun while increasing the stature/measure of the shooter.



Agreed.

Tiny guns are tiny - but particularly with the way the modern premium 9x19 defensive cartridges have been designed (not to mention the old and trusted standbys of both the .38-Special "wadcutter" as well as the specialized "short-barrel" loadings by companies like Speer), there's some really awesomely capable little guns out there. Similarly, I've witnessed excellent shooters display both outstanding marksmanship at longer distances (spray-paint cans at 35 yards, Kahr PM9 - sadly not me/mine 😅) and great recoil-control for defensive-style shooting (consistent sub-.2 splits at 5+ rds/string, A-zone, 5 yards, Sig P365).

It's definitely doable, but I believe that the shooter has to be willing to put in the work to both find the gun that best suits their hands and most capable of being successfully manipulated (and this is much easier today than it was even just 5 years ago, when there were not nearly as may guns on the shelves that fit into this category), and also to diligently practice their gunnery skills. 🎯 (y)
Wow impressive breakdown!

The professor is back!😁👍
 
Back
Top