Should You Choose a Pump-Action or Semi-Automatic Shotgun for Home Defense?
- Thread starter Talyn
- Start date
Bassbob
Emissary
My dad has a Noble 66.
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
KrautBurner
Alpha
I’ve probably got about 1K thru her at this point
Had a couple Failure to Feed issues on the first round from each magazine when new
(All went away after the 3rd loading)
I did everything the forum guys say to do
The day I brought it home, I disassembled and cleaned it (like all my forearms)
Locked the bolt back and left the magazines loaded with slugs for a few weeks
First time out I did all HIGH BRASS slugs and buckshot for the first 100rds
Then switched to cheap stuff (another 200rds on the first outing)
No issues after the first couple mags
Bassbob
Emissary
Mine will slam fire as well. I inherited it from my granddad. My father bought it for him to bird hunt with. My father got my grandfather into quail hunting and up until that point he had been using an old, heavy JC Higgins single shot bolt action 16 gauge. Which I also have.That's the one! I have two barrels with mine ... a 26" (maybe 28") mod choke with vent rib and a 16 1/4" plain bbl full choke. Mine is from back in the day when the old Featherlights would still 'slam fire'. Of all mine, this one is my all time favorite shotgun. I bought it used back around the mid 70's I think. But it's still near pristine.
Bassbob
Emissary
Excellent. I may have to pick me one up.
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
I think I bought mine in about mid 70's and it was made in mid 60's IIRC. It has been my go to shotgun for almost every bird hunt I've been on since I bought it. I also have a really nice early gen Ruger Red Label/OU and love it for trap/skeet and even occasional sporting clays, but almost without question if I'm going to the woods, it's my old Featherlight. I also have an old ('50s I think) really nice Riverside 12ga side by side w 34" bbls. Long, heavy SOB, but a good shooter. Only use it for certain occasions. It's no 'safe queen' by any means, just that I have others so much better.
There's a few places down here where deer hunting requires a shot gun/slug or BS only. There again it's my Ithaca.
Man.......... I'm gonna really be pizzed when I die and my wife gives my Ithaca to her new boyfriend!!!!!!!
Bassbob
Emissary
I have 4 or 5 side by sides.I think I bought mine in about mid 70's and it was made in mid 60's IIRC. It has been my go to shotgun for almost every bird hunt I've been on since I bought it. I also have a really nice early gen Ruger Red Label/OU and love it for trap/skeet and even occasional sporting clays, but almost without question if I'm going to the woods, it's my old Featherlight. I also have an old ('50s I think) really nice Riverside 12ga side by side w 34" bbls. Long, heavy SOB, but a good shooter. Only use it for certain occasions. It's no 'safe queen' by any means, just that I have others so much better.
There's a few places down here where deer hunting requires a shot gun/slug or BS only. There again it's my Ithaca.
Man.......... I'm gonna really be pizzed when I die and my wife gives my Ithaca to her new boyfriend!!!!!!!
The KSGs are designed off the Ithaca 37.
HayesGreener
Ronin
I have used shotguns for hunting and competition more than 60 years, used them often in my LE career, and have taught hundreds of officers in defensive use of the shotgun. When people ask my advice on a home defense firearm, I will most often recommend a pump shotgun, unless they are a proficient pistol or rifle shot.
I have been present twice when a suspect was shot center mass at close range with 00 and that ended the aggression. At the ranges present in most residential rooms, the shotgun is a devastating fight stopper. There is a definite psychological effect on miscreants when the shotgun is deployed.
Most of my experience has been with Remington 870's or Ithaca 37's since that is mostly what most LE agencies have used over the past 70 years. LE training doctrine calls for the shotgun to be carried with the tube loaded and an empty chamber, with the safety "on", in what is called the "cruiser safe" condition, to minimize the potential for negligent discharges. The gun is charged when responding to a perceived threat.
A lot of my students over the years thought they knew how to operate a shotgun until we put them under pressure to load, reload, and operate the gun in a combat course of fire and they all of a sudden became all thumbs and forgot there the controls are. You have to practice with these guns.
Users must practice releasing the slide lock and the safety in order to chamber a round and fire. Semi autos that are not maintained properly are prone to malfunction more so than pump guns but any can fail. Any shotgun requires training and practice in manipulation of the controls and action as they are not intuitive. Recoil is a problem for some shooters but the effects of recoil can be minimized with proper technique. I am comfortable with them. If I knew I was going into CQB, my first choice is my 870 with #4 buck.
I have been present twice when a suspect was shot center mass at close range with 00 and that ended the aggression. At the ranges present in most residential rooms, the shotgun is a devastating fight stopper. There is a definite psychological effect on miscreants when the shotgun is deployed.
Most of my experience has been with Remington 870's or Ithaca 37's since that is mostly what most LE agencies have used over the past 70 years. LE training doctrine calls for the shotgun to be carried with the tube loaded and an empty chamber, with the safety "on", in what is called the "cruiser safe" condition, to minimize the potential for negligent discharges. The gun is charged when responding to a perceived threat.
A lot of my students over the years thought they knew how to operate a shotgun until we put them under pressure to load, reload, and operate the gun in a combat course of fire and they all of a sudden became all thumbs and forgot there the controls are. You have to practice with these guns.
Users must practice releasing the slide lock and the safety in order to chamber a round and fire. Semi autos that are not maintained properly are prone to malfunction more so than pump guns but any can fail. Any shotgun requires training and practice in manipulation of the controls and action as they are not intuitive. Recoil is a problem for some shooters but the effects of recoil can be minimized with proper technique. I am comfortable with them. If I knew I was going into CQB, my first choice is my 870 with #4 buck.
Bassbob
Emissary
Absolutely. It's true with any weapon you plan on carrying or deploying. You have to spend a lot of time training with it. By far the hardest thing to ingrain into muscle memory is loading the shotgun and manipulating the controls. Thousands of hours of it with a Mossberg 500. I never cared for the 870s, though in practical use the only difference in manipulating it is the safety. The only failure I ever incurred with a 500 is when the original plastic safety finally gave up after 30 years and thousands and thousands of rounds. It began engaging after every shot. Replaced with an enhanced steel safety from NDZ, problem solved.
Semi auto shotguns have come a long, long way since the old days. Models like the M4 and the 1301 are highly unlikely to fail other than through user error. I have nowhere near the time on the 1301 as I have on the 500, but in the couple months since I bought it I have put over 2000 rounds through it and a lot of hours training myself to manipulate quickly with snap caps and live fire drills on the range. I have yet to employ it in a shotgun class, but will do so this month.
It's interesting the difference in choice of shotguns and loads between military, LEO and civilian instructors and enthusiasts. LEO ( and military for that matter) have different considerations for sure. Over penetration, the presence of bystanders, etc.. A lot of times regular citizens choose loads and guns based on LEO considerations. For example the widespread use of #4 buck as a defensive load. With modern loads, shotguns and especially modern optics and proper and prolific training it is relatively easy to put all the pellets inside the circle. Arguably a good reason to have a 9 pellet load rather than a 27 pellet load.
Bassbob
Emissary
It's also probable that LEO carry in cruiser mode mainly because they are under some obligation not to shoot people unless it is necessary and they carry shotguns regularly. Civilians are or should be trained that they don't even have a weapon like a shotgun in a defensive situation unless it is necessary. What I mean is that if I have presented a shotgun in a SD scenario it is almost certainly in my house and almost certainly I will need to use it. This means ( for me anyway) the shotgun will be fully loaded with the safety on. Racking the shotgun as a means to deter is ridiculous.
Bassbob
Emissary
Yeah, good luck finding that stuff right now.^ Or even 8-pellet.
Ain't my fault if someone didn't stock it deep while it was cheap and readily available!
I've only been urging that to just about every newer shooter I'd come across, since I (as a shooter who came into the sport/hobby in Q.3 of 2010) had to live through the last half of the previous craze! 
KillerFord1977
SAINT
Agree
One can deter all they want outside of their home.
If a perp up to ill will is INSIDE a home, then all bets are off. It is indicative of the homeowner to defend themselves.
Why on earth would someone “rack” a slide either pistol or shotgun to “ deter” someone. Or even try to chase them out of the home with the noise of a racking. Why even own a gun at that point.
If there is not a round in the chamber, the slide is getting racked the second I grab the gun before one even begins to engage the perp. Its all for show on TV for the non gun, have no clue about firearm crowd.
KillerFord1977
SAINT
Steel goose / duck loads of BB or even #2 shot will do a number on someone.
Shot a coyote at 20 yards that walked in between me and the shoreline years ago with BB goose loads. Lights out
HayesGreener
Ronin
The advent of technology advances like Vang Comp shotgun barrels and Federal Control Flite wads have changed everything with respect to keeping the shot on the target.
#8 birdshot will do a number on the target at 7 yards, if that's all you have available. You can deal with varmints of all sorts with a bird gun, within living room ranges. In our defensive shotgun course we fire about 100 rounds. Only 25 of that is 00, because the recoil becomes intolerable in some shooters after a while. We shoot the remainder of the course with #8 for practice and training.
#8 birdshot will do a number on the target at 7 yards, if that's all you have available. You can deal with varmints of all sorts with a bird gun, within living room ranges. In our defensive shotgun course we fire about 100 rounds. Only 25 of that is 00, because the recoil becomes intolerable in some shooters after a while. We shoot the remainder of the course with #8 for practice and training.
