testtest

Showdown: Springfield Armory Hellcat vs. Sig Sauer P365

I own both and they are both great guns. I carry the 365 with a 12-round magazine because that was the combination that fit my hand the best. I really wanted to fall in love with the Hellcat, because I am a huge XD fan, but it just felt a little too blocky in my hand and I never really warmed up to the u-notch rear sight. The 365 was just a better fit for me, but I know more than a few shooters who prefer the Hellcat.
 
KillerFord1977 said:
I will be the lone person to say I cannot stand either gun. HATE subcompact 9mm’s with a pasion.
Click to expand...
Hate is a very strong word but I understand where you’re coming from.
Never shot a Sig so I have no opinion one way or another however I did shoot a HellCat “rented” and although it performed well it just didn’t fit my hand.
Every gun is different as well as every shooter, if it works for you then enjoy, if it doesn’t then carry and/or own and shoot what does.
 
Keystone19250 said:
Hate is a very strong word but I understand where you’re coming from.
Never shot a Sig so I have no opinion one way or another however I did shoot a HellCat “rented” and although it performed well it just didn’t fit my hand.
Every gun is different as well as every shooter, if it works for you then enjoy, if it doesn’t then carry and/or own and shoot what does.
Click to expand...
Not knocking quality and function of either gun. Both and many others are very well made pistols. I just hate subcompacts in general. I dont like the platform across the board.
 
First of all I consider them Micro Compacts. Sub compacts for me are say; H&K P30sk's which are great. I have a P365 and have never seen a reason to try a Hellcat. I do carry it only rarely and when that is on the belt I use the 12 round mag which I find comfortable. I use the NPZ finger grip for the 10 round mag IF I carry in my pocket. I have found the Sig accurate and reliable (1200 rounds so far). I find all Mircos much more enjoyable and easier to shoot than J Frames plus you have a lot more ammo. I did not like the sights on the SAS and moving up to the XL seems to defeat the purpose. I do have a 15 round mag that is great for the range and would work for a backup.
 
Lchtus said:
How do you like the sas and the sights. I have not held one but I think the sights are diffferent?
Click to expand...
I really like the sights, with one caveat - they are non-existent in the dark. I called SIG and got this ridiculous yarn about how they’re that way so they won’t ruin your night vision. My reply was how can they ruin my night vision when I can’t see them at all. I also changed out the take down lever and the slide lock because they are extremely difficult to use. The standard ones won’t get snagged on anything. So it’s a mixed bag. I like the melted look of the gun, I think it shoots great and is very easy to conceal, and with a 15 round mag will properly take care of business. I just wish the bullseye sight was a proper night sight.
 
I bought my Hellcat in February based on shooting the Sig 365. Between the two, it was the Hellcat that fit my hand very well. The Sig just didn't feel right nor did it shoot well for me. In contrast, the Hellcat shoots 30 feet better than most full size handguns I shoot. My hands prefer a Ruger Redhawk over a S&W 686 also. (Most people think that's insane). A handgun has to fit and feel right above all else. Very few people will train and carry one that doesn't regardless of how well they shoot it. This is why between these two guns, it really comes down to fit. Both are great! (Except of course for those that just plain don't like subs).
 
Hi Annihilator,

Thanks for the link. However, it didn't provide useful info.

Subcompact, reliable 9MM semis must have devastated demand for the once ubiquitous Chief Special that morphed in to the famed Model 36 (Model 60 is the stainless version of the Model 36.) five-shot revolver.

I have very limited knowledge of striker fired handguns. I do have knowledge of a few models of Sig's "P" series handguns. They are excellent.

The Model 36 is a belly gun. That term implies very close distance, at which survival might rely upon instinctive point-shooting while evading incoming rounds. Hence, I have become more than mystified by emphasis on belly guns' sights. There was a reason the Model 36 had slight indicators of sights. At 10' and less, sights do not enter the survival equation. Not getting shot must be everyone's primary objective.

Belly guns are not identified by their precise accuracy. However, they must possess reasonable accuracy. At belly gun distance, reliability prevails over sight alignment.

I was amazed by the accuracy of my Springfield Armory EMP 3 9MM. I did not expect precise accuracy from a small handgun. I was used to acceptable accuracy from an S&W "J" frame.. The reality is such precise accuracy is not required for survival. My EMP 3's precise accuracy does imply highest quality craftsmanship.

Reality is consumers' purchases reflect their biases. Consumers select from a array of options. Their choices evidence what's right for them. For some, a striker fired subcompact is right. For others (I'm one of the others.) a 1911-A1, or facsimile thereof, is right.

Finally, the author's writing that the 9MM is the people's cartridge was an example of dandified and massively exaggerated opinion presented as definitive. His opinion was analogous to proclaiming the winner of a rigged and legally contested election that has yet to be certified.
 
Peglegjoe said:
Agree 110%, which is why my EDC guns have green lasers. I don't expect to be able to build a traditional sight picture in a close-quarters encounter, so I like to be able to place the dot where I plan to make a hole.
Click to expand...

Hi Peglegjoe,

We are incapable of altering involuntary responses of our bodies. Tunnel vision is an involuntary response to an imminent deadly threat. However, we can ingrain conditioned responses to threats. Tunnel vision forces us to focus on threats our brains perceive to the exclusion of all other potential threats. If we allow our involuntary response of tunnel vision to control our tactical responses, it could have fatal consequences. Tunnel vision would prevent us from detecting a bad guy's cohort standing out of view. Hence, we have to condition ourselves to keep both eyes open and to turn our heads to detect other threats.

There are many scientific facts that will determine survival. Survivors know of them and tactically train consistent with them.

90+% of all gunfights occur at 10' or less. At that distance, sights, optical or traditional, could have fatal consequences.

It is very easy to master point shooting at 10'. It's so easy, even a caveman could do it.

We all have to abide by regimens with which we're comfortable, and we believe provide maximum probably of not getting shop.

Even at highly regulated indoor ranges, I point shoot at 10' with both eyes open. But even that is insufficient to increase probability of survival. A far better method of training is setting up at least to silhouette targets and a few barriers (objects that prevent bullet penetration) at a safe location. Engage one targt while turning your head to scan for other threats. Identify barriers and run to the closest one while firing at silhouette targets.

There an inverse relationship between time on target and probability of survival. In essence, the longer a good guy exchanges rounds with a bad guy, the less his probability of survival. Hence the basis for my belief that the .45 ACP is king of tactical handgun cartridges. Any hit on a buy guy who's putting rounds on a good guy is a good hit. Some hits are better than others, but any hit is a good hit. Hence, a bullet that does maximum damage to bad guy's forearm will increase a good guy's probability of survival.

I wouldn't care if a bad guy were to survive an exchange of gunfire with a good guy as long as the good guy survives. Neophytes rely upon rounds fired to determine nebulous criteria of mysterious gunfight assessment gunfights. The only controlling metric of gunfight success is whether the good guy survived. Rounds fired is wholly irrelevant.

Action is faster than reaction. A marauder with a gun in his hand has what might be a fatal tactical advantage vis-a-vis a good guy with a holstered handgun.

Avoidance is the only know way of assuring avoidance. Situational awareness is a crucial component of situational awareness. However, situational awareness alone is insufficient. Ability to recognize bad guys prior to their initiating deadly felonies is extremely crucial. However, without knowledge, training, and expertise, it could be assuredly difficult to ID a bad guy.

The wise know that it's better to be a live witness than a dead hero.

I will conclude that since self-defense is a very personal issue, how anyone decides to defend himself is only his business. Sights are personal preference. I would never tell another his sights are wrong for him. He knows what's right for him, not me.
 
Hi, all good points, but I think you may have misunderstood my equipment reference. My XD-s has a Viridian R5 green laser on it, and my Hellcat has a O-light Baldr-mini green laser with tac light. I do not use red-dot sights because they require me to look through a reticle, much the same as traditional irons require me to line up front and rear sights for a coherent "picture". My lasers...I simply put the dot physically ON the target I desire, and pull the trigger. This can be done from the hip, across the body, from behind cover...whatever. I don't even have to have my pistol in my field of vision, only my intended target. Wherever the dot is (physically) when I pull the trigger...that's where the hole appears.

I do practice with sights, as well as with the lasers, as well as point-shoot (at home - 4 acres, where I've set up a private lane for myself in the woods with an earthen backstop against the mountain). I do need, at some point, to add obstacles and/or accomplices...but I hope all of this is the biggest waste of money and time in my life, and that I never, ever have to put any of this into practice.

But it's still fun to plink! :cool:
 
Peglegjoe said:
Hi, all good points, but I think you may have misunderstood my equipment reference. My XD-s has a Viridian R5 green laser on it, and my Hellcat has a O-light Baldr-mini green laser with tac light. I do not use red-dot sights because they require me to look through a reticle, much the same as traditional irons require me to line up front and rear sights for a coherent "picture". My lasers...I simply put the dot physically ON the target I desire, and pull the trigger. This can be done from the hip, across the body, from behind cover...whatever. I don't even have to have my pistol in my field of vision, only my intended target. Wherever the dot is (physically) when I pull the trigger...that's where the hole appears.

I do practice with sights, as well as with the lasers, as well as point-shoot (at home - 4 acres, where I've set up a private lane for myself in the woods with an earthen backstop against the mountain). I do need, at some point, to add obstacles and/or accomplices...but I hope all of this is the biggest waste of money and time in my life, and that I never, ever have to put any of this into practice.

But it's still fun to plink! :cool:
Click to expand...


Awesome stuff all around, and everyone has such great points.

I think I am coming to a similar conclusion as you. I removed my red dot recently (even though it does work really well when shooting). Baldr mini seems to stay home or in my bag (just on in home D mode). I need to Bring it with me to the range to see how I like it (that green is REALLY bright).

I do have a grip laser I have to pick up for my PM9 i was going to try out at the range.

Now I just need 3.575435 more acres so I can get your setup.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top