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SigP320 Safety Problems Continue – Resulting In Bans from Police Training Ranges!

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Old_Me said:
this video guy in the ball cap is all...blah..blah ...blah

watch the video from Sig, which shows the "bonus safety measures, the ball cap guy DOES NOT show
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Braden explained why he didn't show the bonus material, he said it wasn't relevant. That being said, he always posts the receipts, he understands it's important for people to see for themselves.

My concerns are limited to user safety and how this will reflect on the 2A community as a whole. CLEARLY there's something wrong; you know something's wrong when there are over 100 active lawsuits for one specific product. These suits don't count the ones that were dismissed or the ones that SIG won. If it comes out that SIG knew about the problem all this time, or the problems with the P320 are definitively found and explained by a 3rd party (how & why), SIG is TOAST and this will open all gun manufacturers to crippling regulatory 'fixes' by anti-2A politicians!

I believe SIG knows what the issue is, and maybe at some point they quietly introduced some changes after their so-called 'voluntary upgrade', rather than issue a recall. But they're so invested in the narrative that they started with, they can't reverse course without triggering an avalanche of lawsuits and possibly criminal liability from provably untruthful statements made to various government agencies.
 
MN.Militia said:
Braden explained why he didn't show the bonus material, he said it wasn't relevant. That being said, he always posts the receipts, he understands it's important for people to see for themselves.

My concerns are limited to user safety and how this will reflect on the 2A community as a whole. CLEARLY there's something wrong; you know something's wrong when there are over 100 active lawsuits for one specific product. These suits don't count the ones that were dismissed or the ones that SIG won. If it comes out that SIG knew about the problem all this time, or the problems with the P320 are definitively found and explained by a 3rd party (how & why), SIG is TOAST and this will open all gun manufacturers to crippling regulatory 'fixes' by anti-2A politicians!

I believe SIG knows what the issue is, and maybe at some point they quietly introduced some changes after their so-called 'voluntary upgrade', rather than issue a recall. But they're so invested in the narrative that they started with, they can't reverse course without triggering an avalanche of lawsuits and possibly criminal liability from provably untruthful statements made to various government agencies.
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i think that by not showing the entire video only speaks about his own unwillingness to present ALL the facts.

there were as said..."safety bonuses" near the end, and yet, he chose to be his own self proclaimed "moderator of the whole facts"
 
Old_Me said:
i think that by not showing the entire video only speaks about his own unwillingness to present ALL the facts.

there were as said..."safety bonuses" near the end, and yet, he chose to be his own self proclaimed "moderator of the whole facts"
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Is it unwillingness if you honestly think it's not relevant? IDK, IDC.
 
Just FYI the US Marshals nebwr issued Sig 320’s the bean was for approved off duty guns. They have issued Glocks since 2002 shortly after I left my contract guard gig and moved to BOP

As fas as Sig.

I find the latest video from a couple days ago funny because they argued in court that their product (the 320) was so inherently unsafe a user should have know that to avoid paying damages. And it apparently worked.

Now the video comes out about the “5 things have to happen”

Sig has some deceptive issues and most of us nebwr banned them iver a single data point so nothing is all better with an arrest of an AF Troop. Way too much video of no hands on them going off.

Plenty of other makes that are not inherently unsafe and if it was human error we’d be seeing the same numbers of booms with Glock and M&Ps which both outnumber 320’s
 
MN.Militia said:
I believe SIG knows what the issue is
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Hello, Racer-X. Same answer to you here as there:

You now assert that you believe Sig has been able to replicate an UD without any trigger pull but hasn’t disclosed that fact?

That’s your current stance? Sig has replicated the problem but isn’t disclosing such, including in required legal discovery in the several ongoing lawsuits?

And you believe Sig has replicated the problem based on what, exactly?
 
ECS686 said:
Just FYI the US Marshals nebwr issued Sig 320’s the bean was for approved off duty guns. They have issued Glocks since 2002 shortly after I left my contract guard gig and moved to BOP

As fas as Sig.

I find the latest video from a couple days ago funny because they argued in court that their product (the 320) was so inherently unsafe a user should have know that to avoid paying damages. And it apparently worked.

Now the video comes out about the “5 things have to happen”

Sig has some deceptive issues and most of us nebwr banned them iver a single data point so nothing is all better with an arrest of an AF Troop. Way too much video of no hands on them going off.

Plenty of other makes that are not inherently unsafe and if it was human error we’d be seeing the same numbers of booms with Glock and M&Ps which both outnumber 320’s
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nebwr…..nebwr……🤔
 
NMEDGE said:
I would purchase one but there is no where here that I can shoot that pistol. Local ranges here and in next county have banned them. I don't want another paper weight.
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That’s just plain stupid banning a gun for this so called issue, if I belonged to any of those clubs, I would quit and find another place to shoot
 
Annihilator said:
That’s just plain stupid banning a gun for this so called issue, if I belonged to any of those clubs, I would quit and find another place to shoot
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There used to be 2 places to go out in the desert but government owned the land (BLM) and they have blocked them off and posted signs saying no more shooting. The only other place is the county range. Most people working there don't agree but county commissioners approved the new rule until further notice. So, if I want to make noise I have to use county range and go by the rules. Also, New Mexico is becoming not gun friendly and I don't want to give anybody more ammunition to ban our legal right to own a firearm.
 
MN.Militia said:
I'm saying the opposite about tests. Sig won't test, because then they would have to disclose the results.
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So you're now saying that instead of getting ahead of the problem and displaying data that shows what you're asserting could be the issue isn't (BTW, I don't disagree with you... it could... and I'd love to see the data), that SIG is intentionally not producing the very evidence that could defend them... AND allowing the internet at large to do so more broadly and less precisely, which would further falsely implicate them?

That's what you believe their strategy is?
 
MN.Militia said:
Clubs & Ranges are being contacted by these insurers and saying their policy will be cancelled or rates raised exorbitantly if they don't ban the P320's from their facilities.
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Please provide an example of this in current times for a datapoint to back that statement up. I'd love to see it.
 
MN.Militia said:
Easy to say that but you have no idea just how expensive and restrictive insurance can be for gun clubs. It is the #1 cost of operating a range! Do you not think the insurance companies know what's going on with Sig? Bean counters own guns, too, you know. They read the same magazines, visit the same websites, attend the same gun shows as the rest of us. And if the insurance companies know, then their liability limits will reflect that. Clubs & Ranges are being contacted by these insurers and saying their policy will be cancelled or rates raised exorbitantly if they don't ban the P320's from their facilities.
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You got any proof of this or are you just making up your own assumptions
 
MN.Militia said:
AS IF I know who runs every gun club in the country and could get them to cough up their insurance policy to a complete stranger...
Your retorts are a literal meme:
View attachment 91617
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I know what you mean but that is the problem anymore, people just run with conjecture. It’s rampant today all around us so yea, sources do matter. Nowadays people are guilty until proven innocent and someone can make a completely baseless claim without repercussions. Not saying you are, but I’m not a fan of that meme because that is a big dang problem in the world today in my opinion.
 
MN.Militia said:
You are the meme.
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Given that nothing else you've posted has any validity, I'm not too worried about you finally having to resort to memes.

To the rest of the thread - has anyone seen data on which trigger (curved or flat) is involved in these incidents? Might be interesting to see if one or the other has more reported incidents. I have a suspicion that folks used to curved triggers might be putting pressure on the flat trigger without thinking about it, and with a very different feel, until "bang!"
 
mreed911 said:
Given that nothing else you've posted has any validity, I'm not too worried about you finally having to resort to memes.

To the rest of the thread - has anyone seen data on which trigger (curved or flat) is involved in these incidents? Might be interesting to see if one or the other has more reported incidents. I have a suspicion that folks used to curved triggers might be putting pressure on the flat trigger without thinking about it, and with a very different feel, until "bang!"
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Thwre has been several videos released of LEOs many walking with hands carrying something nothin touching their holstered Sig 329 going off.

While there were a couple cases of handcuff keys with one in particular they were struggling a suspect. There’s enough where the 320 was fully holstered.

Those occasions as well as the Michigan State Police and the Washington State Police Academy having a detailed report and video in Washington’s case as well.

Like I said it’s not a single data point that made these organizations suspend the use of 320’s and there is nowhere near the numbers of OOPS with Gkicks or M&Ps which outnumber the 320 so if it was human error those numbers would be higher and they are not.

Sig’s got issues and anyone tha denies the 320 doesn’t has their head in the sand

Sig also didn’t do themselves any favors by admitting ro a jury theor product was inherently unsafe and the user should have known it to get out of paying damages
 
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