testtest

Such a thing as too much???

Trebor657

Operator
Do you think there is such a thing as too many modifications for an EDC handgun? Guy came into the local range a couple days ago and we got to talking about our EDC....he reached into his range bag and pulled out his EDC....It had pretty much every modification you can think of...Match grade ported barrel and slide, red dot sight, extended magazine release, extended slide release, match grade trigger, oversized trigger guard, additional slide serrations and I am sure more....

When I asked about why all the modifications, he said he believed in being fully prepared. Got me to thinking. For a range gun or a "hey, look what I got gun" I suppose it's fine...but for a carry gun, I think it was way too much. In addition to the obvious issues of easy concealment, holster issues etc, if he did ever have to use the weapon in a self-defense situation, I wouldn't want to be him. I am sure if the incident resulted in a court action, you can bet an attorney is going to grill this guy about every modification and why it was necessary and more. My guess is a jury may see the modifications in a different light than a gun enthusiast would and may come to the conclusion that the shooter modified the gun for the wrong reasons...

In my opinion, a few mods are fine, but I believe for an EDC there is such a thing as too much.... What are your thoughts??
 

wolfpack076

Master Class
I have seen this type before. We had new hire a few months ago. Guy had every and I mean every modification done to his "duty gun". Well needless to say, he wasn't allowed to qualify with that weapon and carry it on duty mostly because of what you indicated on how if he ever used it how it would look in a court of law. Funny story here on modifications here. When I went to rifle instructor school many many years ago young kid showed up with his M-4 all dolled up with every possible modification imaginable. Course was two full weeks long. This kid was literally bragging how this and that mod works and why its good and the best. We shot for score three times a day and if a student failed any they were bounced out no alibis or questions asked. Needless to say this kid was bounced after his first time shooting for score.
 

Bassbob

SAINT
Do you think there is such a thing as too many modifications for an EDC handgun? Guy came into the local range a couple days ago and we got to talking about our EDC....he reached into his range bag and pulled out his EDC....It had pretty much every modification you can think of...Match grade ported barrel and slide, red dot sight, extended magazine release, extended slide release, match grade trigger, oversized trigger guard, additional slide serrations and I am sure more....

When I asked about why all the modifications, he said he believed in being fully prepared. Got me to thinking. For a range gun or a "hey, look what I got gun" I suppose it's fine...but for a carry gun, I think it was way too much. In addition to the obvious issues of easy concealment, holster issues etc, if he did ever have to use the weapon in a self-defense situation, I wouldn't want to be him. I am sure if the incident resulted in a court action, you can bet an attorney is going to grill this guy about every modification and why it was necessary and more. My guess is a jury may see the modifications in a different light than a gun enthusiast would and may come to the conclusion that the shooter modified the gun for the wrong reasons...

In my opinion, a few mods are fine, but I believe for an EDC there is such a thing as too much.... What are your thoughts??

A lot of factors determine what I do to my carry gun. If something helps or gives me an advantage is the motivating factor. And that is regardless of some imaginary ( as in not a single person I have asked, of which there are many, has ever been able to give me an example of a jury or a DA using LEGAL gun mods to prosecute anyone in a justified self defense shooting) internet rumblings about overzealous prosecutors and juries.

Everyone's idea of what is advantageous for an EDC is going to be different. Slide cuts to me are the opposite of helpful in an EDC. Just more places crap can get in. Trigger mods ? Well, if it helps you be faster or more accurate go for it. Nothing wrong with match grade barrels or extended/enhanced controls. Lots of people, including LEO and military, use red dots on their carry pistols. If you train and are faster with them then great. Extended mags that hang an inch or two out of the bottom of the gun are fine for spare mags, but I wouldn't think they would be very helpful in the gun as far as concealment goes.
 

Bassbob

SAINT
I have seen this type before. We had new hire a few months ago. Guy had every and I mean every modification done to his "duty gun". Well needless to say, he wasn't allowed to qualify with that weapon and carry it on duty mostly because of what you indicated on how if he ever used it how it would look in a court of law. Funny story here on modifications here. When I went to rifle instructor school many many years ago young kid showed up with his M-4 all dolled up with every possible modification imaginable. Course was two full weeks long. This kid was literally bragging how this and that mod works and why its good and the best. We shot for score three times a day and if a student failed any they were bounced out no alibis or questions asked. Needless to say this kid was bounced after his first time shooting for score.
I'd say the same thing applies to carbines. Your story reminds me of one I have heard many times about people with minimal talent buying uber expensive guitars and equipment and still sounding like crap. The fact is even though little Johnny sounds like crap through his $4000 Les Paul and Marshall amp, Eric Clapton would sound bad ass with it. The kid in your example is the weak link, not necessarily his gun. If his mods make sense they make sense. If not, well, he's an idiot.
 

Bassbob

SAINT
Other than changing sights on a gun I have never modified one. It just makes no sense to me. If I wanted a "better" gun I would have purchased it.

Changing sights is really not any different than putting an Apex flat trigger in your Shield. A lot of different things factor in to what someone thinks makes a gun better.

Here's an example. Nearly every single HK pistol. You aren't going to hear too many people saying a P30 isn't a good gun. The stock triggers are terrible though.

That said, I bought an HK that already had the trigger done so technically I bought the "Better" gun. Nevertheless, I have never modified a carry pistol other than sights either.
 
Except for adding an accessory, like adding the light to my Emissary or bipod to my M1A I’ve never made modifications to any of my guns, if I had an issue after purchase and didn’t like something about the gun that I couldn’t overcome with practice/training I’d sell it and buy something else with no regrets.

As far as a red dot, I purchased one and added it to my Elite Compact 10mm because the guns slide was cut for one at the factory so I consider that an accessory. I won’t have the slide cut on another of my guns just to add an optic.
That to me is a modification.
My opinion, enough said.
 

The Night Rider

Master Class
I'm a minimalist, the only modifications I've ever made to one of my guns was upgrading the sites on my Glocks.

Having said that, the only time I'm aware of that modifications to a firearm became a central issue in a trial was Officer Philip Brailsford of the Police Department in Mesa, Arizona. He's the cop that had the AR with "You're F****d" on the dust cover. Even if it was only that one time though, that one time was enough for me.

I know we have lawyers who are members here who know far more about this than I ever will but a lawyer's job is to win the case and they will do whatever they're allowed to do that.

All you have to do is look at Kyle Rittenhouse or George Zimmerman to see that.
 

Bassbob

SAINT
I'm a minimalist, the only modifications I've ever made to one of my guns was upgrading the sites on my Glocks.

Having said that, the only time I'm aware of that modifications to a firearm became a central issue in a trial was Officer Philip Brailsford of the Police Department in Mesa, Arizona. He's the cop that had the AR with "You're F****d" on the dust cover. Even if it was only that one time though, that one time was enough for me.

I know we have lawyers who are members here who know far more about this than I ever will but a lawyer's job is to win the case and they will do whatever they're allowed to do that.

All you have to do is look at Kyle Rittenhouse or George Zimmerman to see that.
Two things:

LEO are and should be held to a higher standard with regards to use of force. There is a big difference between a cop showing an attitude like painting " You're F******" on a service weapon and a guy who puts an aftermarket trigger in his Glock.

George Zimmerman and Kyle Rittenhouse A) were both acquitted and B) did not have modified weapons or at least modified weapons played no part in their trials.


After all this time of people on gun forums and Massad Ayoob warning us all about modifying the trigger on your carry gun, there is still not a single example, even in California, New York or any of the communist bloc states, of a civilian being convicted because of or brought to trial because of an aftermarket trigger or any other legal gun modifications.


I am a minimalist too and my carry guns are unmolested, but you can bet your butt that if I thought they needed something I would have zero qualms about modding them.
 

BassCliff

Master Class
Hi,

Less is more.

More is more.

You can't get too much of a good thing.

Yes, you can get too much of a good thing.

Anything worth doing is worth doing well.

Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.


There are different schools of thought. My thoughts are, it has to be functional, it has to be practical, it has to be cost effective, it has to improve the situation and not my ego, it has to make sense.

Granted, I've done some things just for fun but we're talking EDC here. None of my instructors have ever spoken out against any physical modifications but they have against cosmetics, i.e. "punisher" skull logos or political emblems, etc.

This is serious business. You guys know how to keep it real.

Today's profound glimpse into the obvious was brought to you by this old noob. :ROFLMAO:


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 

KillerFord1977

Ronin
Founding Member
Guns are modified for:
Example:
My weak grip cant operate the slide
Trigger finger is arthritic so I need a modified trigger
Sights are modified due to my eyesight at night ..

You could go on and on and on…

Someone name one trial where someone was convicted for mods on their gun ….
 

papa

Professional
Founding Member
I am not scared of what will happen in court over a modded firearm. I have a XDs .45 mod 1 that I put a sear and spring kit in because the trigger was terrible in it from the factory. I just now measured it and for 10 trigger pulls it still averages out to a 6 LB 5 OZ trigger pull.
 

Old_Me

Hellcat
Do you think there is such a thing as too many modifications for an EDC handgun? Guy came into the local range a couple days ago and we got to talking about our EDC....he reached into his range bag and pulled out his EDC....It had pretty much every modification you can think of...Match grade ported barrel and slide, red dot sight, extended magazine release, extended slide release, match grade trigger, oversized trigger guard, additional slide serrations and I am sure more....

When I asked about why all the modifications, he said he believed in being fully prepared. Got me to thinking. For a range gun or a "hey, look what I got gun" I suppose it's fine...but for a carry gun, I think it was way too much. In addition to the obvious issues of easy concealment, holster issues etc, if he did ever have to use the weapon in a self-defense situation, I wouldn't want to be him. I am sure if the incident resulted in a court action, you can bet an attorney is going to grill this guy about every modification and why it was necessary and more. My guess is a jury may see the modifications in a different light than a gun enthusiast would and may come to the conclusion that the shooter modified the gun for the wrong reasons...

In my opinion, a few mods are fine, but I believe for an EDC there is such a thing as too much.... What are your thoughts??
i do not modify any of my EDC guns. PERIOD.

Guns are modified for:
Example:
My weak grip cant operate the slide
Trigger finger is arthritic so I need a modified trigger
Sights are modified due to my eyesight at night ..

You could go on and on and on…

Someone name one trial where someone was convicted for mods on their gun ….
i was watching a video from Brownell's, where they speak of, should you modify your carry gun.

in the end, neither guy can say he ever heard if anyone was convicted, or if it was even brought up at trial.

that doesn't mean however, it never happens......we don't see, or hear of everything
 

HayesGreener

Professional
On a side note:
If I am alive and well after using my firearm on an attacker by defending myself, I am not concerned about the pistol.
Losing a $2000 pistol to the PD is worth being alive.
Absolutely. If your first criteria for a defensive pistol is cost, you got it wrong. Chances are you will never need to use it. But if you need it, it better work and you had better be competent with it. Plus if you are in the right you will most likely get your pistol back.
 
The KISS method has been tried and true for decades if not centuries. I personally take notes from those in combat zones, special forces etc. They test and find what the usefulness/cost ratio is. Cost can be weight, being "in the way", etc. If its good enough for them to use, good enough for me...and as always, train train train with what you do have.
 
I am a big fan of live and let live. It's there gun, there property, they are the ones that have to be happy with it and who have to shoot it not me. As long as it's reliable and it works for them, I am all for it even if it's not my cup of tea, I don't get triggered over it.

I have added APEX triggers, night sights, and threaded barrels to a couple of my firearms.

eL9kaWT.jpg


There's my Shield Plus that I decided to put a threaded barrel, light/laser combo, and an optic on. It's still reliable, I still can shoot it well, and I like it, so that's all that matters.
 
Last edited:
No, but prosecuting attorneys who grabbed every straw they could to win their case did.
I disagree that if all the facts of the case were exactly the same except that they added, for example, an aftermarket trigger and extended mag release and slide stop, they would have been found guilty.

People make these folklore claims on the gun forums and social media, but they can never cite even one anecdotal example where this has ever happened.
 
Top