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Such a thing as too much???

SimonRL

Professional
A lot of factors determine what I do to my carry gun. If something helps or gives me an advantage is the motivating factor. And that is regardless of some imaginary ( as in not a single person I have asked, of which there are many, has ever been able to give me an example of a jury or a DA using LEGAL gun mods to prosecute anyone in a justified self defense shooting) internet rumblings about overzealous prosecutors and juries.

Everyone's idea of what is advantageous for an EDC is going to be different. Slide cuts to me are the opposite of helpful in an EDC. Just more places crap can get in. Trigger mods ? Well, if it helps you be faster or more accurate go for it. Nothing wrong with match grade barrels or extended/enhanced controls. Lots of people, including LEO and military, use red dots on their carry pistols. If you train and are faster with them then great. Extended mags that hang an inch or two out of the bottom of the gun are fine for spare mags, but I wouldn't think they would be very helpful in the gun as far as concealment goes.
I have to agree with my friend. I think the biggest thing with modding an EDC is making sure that it works flawlessly. There are folks out there who won’t change the slightest thing for fear of it not working at the right time, while others mod away. I think there’s no wrong answer, each person has to make up their own mind.

And as for ambitious prosecutors, it seems like the only place where people get charged because they modded their EDC is on the internet. I’ve never met anyone first hand who has fallen victim in this respect. If anyone actually knows someone who did time because they modified their EDC I’m sure we’d all like to hear directly from that person.
 

HayesGreener

Professional
I disagree that if all the facts of the case were exactly the same except that they added, for example, an aftermarket trigger and extended mag release and slide stop, they would have been found guilty.

People make these folklore claims on the gun forums and social media, but they can never cite even one anecdotal example where this has ever happened.
I agree. Youtube BS lawyers come up with lots of "you better nots" so you will click on their monetized videos and the next thing you know the BS is being repeated all over the place. It is mostly nonsense. I frequently ran into students who had taken various urban legends as gospel, and much of it was outrageous. Some of it would land you in jail. I am incensed when instructors repeat the crap because they should know better.

There was a case in Mesa AZ a few years back where an officer was charged with manslaughter after shooting a man who had been seen with a pellet pistol. The dust cover on the officer's AR had the words "you're fu@$&d". The prosecutor attempted to use the inscription as evidence that the officer was trigger happy looking for a chance to shoot somebody. Although the inscription is ill advised on a rifle used for policing, it had no bearing on the case and the officer was acquitted. So much BS urban legend about modified weapons grew out of that case but, unless your modifications make the weapon illegal, your use of legally justfied force does not hinge upon the appearance of the weapon.
 

Talyn

Ronin
Founding Member
Do you think there is such a thing as too many modifications for an EDC handgun? Guy came into the local range a couple days ago and we got to talking about our EDC....he reached into his range bag and pulled out his EDC....It had pretty much every modification you can think of...Match grade ported barrel and slide, red dot sight, extended magazine release, extended slide release, match grade trigger, oversized trigger guard, additional slide serrations and I am sure more....

When I asked about why all the modifications, he said he believed in being fully prepared. Got me to thinking. For a range gun or a "hey, look what I got gun" I suppose it's fine...but for a carry gun, I think it was way too much. In addition to the obvious issues of easy concealment, holster issues etc, if he did ever have to use the weapon in a self-defense situation, I wouldn't want to be him. I am sure if the incident resulted in a court action, you can bet an attorney is going to grill this guy about every modification and why it was necessary and more. My guess is a jury may see the modifications in a different light than a gun enthusiast would and may come to the conclusion that the shooter modified the gun for the wrong reasons...

In my opinion, a few mods are fine, but I believe for an EDC there is such a thing as too much.... What are your thoughts??
I've learned that while some upgrades warranted, keeping things simple is best.
 

Ranger715

Elite
I believe Massad Ayoob has mentioned mods that were problematic in court in some of his articles over the years, usually "hair trigger" jobs, or something an overzealous prosecutor might try to characterize as a "hair trigger." So be wary of that. I think it's good rule of thumb to have a clear, articulable reason for any modifications to your EDC pistol, beyond just thinking, "that's cool." For instance, I'm thinking of going to a red dot pistol because my 58 year old eyes don't see the regular front sight too sharply anymore, especially indoors. It would aid my accuracy, and therefore improve safety. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
 

The Night Rider

Master Class
I disagree that if all the facts of the case were exactly the same except that they added, for example, an aftermarket trigger and extended mag release and slide stop, they would have been found guilty.

People make these folklore claims on the gun forums and social media, but they can never cite even one anecdotal example where this has ever happened.
I pointed out a real world example where it actually happened.

It didn't stop him from being acquitted but it did give him problems.

You do you Boo
 

Bassbob

SAINT
I believe Massad Ayoob has mentioned mods that were problematic in court in some of his articles over the years, usually "hair trigger" jobs, or something an overzealous prosecutor might try to characterize as a "hair trigger." So be wary of that. I think it's good rule of thumb to have a clear, articulable reason for any modifications to your EDC pistol, beyond just thinking, "that's cool." For instance, I'm thinking of going to a red dot pistol because my 58 year old eyes don't see the regular front sight too sharply anymore, especially indoors. It would aid my accuracy, and therefore improve safety. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
No specific cases. I even asked him personally to name one. Here. He didn't.
 

Jfal

Custom
My OEM P365 needs no changes (EDC carry) for me. However, my AR I am constantly upgrading various parts, but that is not even my HD firearm...it's a range toy.

Change anything you want...while you can. Something tells me things will be changing rapidly for us in this regard.
 

Bassbob

SAINT
My OEM P365 needs no changes (EDC carry) for me. However, my AR I am constantly upgrading various parts, but that is not even my HD firearm...it's a range toy.

Change anything you want...while you can. Something tells me things will be changing rapidly for us in this regard.
I'm kind of Keep It Simple Stupid on carry pistols. I haven't got any with dots on them. No WMLs. I only have one that isn't a stock trigger and that's an HK that the GrayGuns trigger mods were already done ( to be fair, it would have been the first thing I did if it wasn't). Not because I'm scared of a prosecutor, but because I train with these pistols, they work for me and there's not a bunch of stuff in my way or stuff that can go wrong.

ARs are different and shotguns for me are totally different. There's no shotgun in existence I wouldn't change a couple things on.

I just put a magnifier on my main carbine. Not sure I like it. The dot is a little distorted through the magnifier and frankly the 3X magnification doesn't seem to be much better than without. It is a cheap PA magnifier though. I may just pull all that crap off and stick a 510 on it and be done.
 

Jfal

Custom
I'm kind of Keep It Simple Stupid on carry pistols. I haven't got any with dots on them. No WMLs. I only have one that isn't a stock trigger and that's an HK that the GrayGuns trigger mods were already done ( to be fair, it would have been the first thing I did if it wasn't). Not because I'm scared of a prosecutor, but because I train with these pistols, they work for me and there's not a bunch of stuff in my way or stuff that can go wrong.

ARs are different and shotguns for me are totally different. There's no shotgun in existence I wouldn't change a couple things on.

I just put a magnifier on my main carbine. Not sure I like it. The dot is a little distorted through the magnifier and frankly the 3X magnification doesn't seem to be much better than without. It is a cheap PA magnifier though. I may just pull all that crap off and stick a 510 on it and be done.
You are the shotgun guru...I'd hate to admit I haven't fired mine (870 Express) in 8 years!

EDC? Do mods matter? If your gun shoots better, and if you shoot it better....why not?...only you can answer that.

Lights, lasers....not for me.
 
I believe Massad Ayoob has mentioned mods that were problematic in court in some of his articles over the years, usually "hair trigger" jobs, or something an overzealous prosecutor might try to characterize as a "hair trigger." So be wary of that.
@Bassbob

Massad Ayoob was being very disingenuous, to the point of purposely misleading his audience in an attempt to support his personal point of view. Although I am new here, I have been a member of several other popular firearm forums for about a decade now. This argument/debate has been made ad nauseam. I will simply copy and paste my responses I posted on another forum from over a year and a half ago.

Massad Ayoob wrote:
Massad Ayoob said:
If the light-triggered gun actually did cause the death or injury, expect the path to courtroom victory to be very steep. Consider Case One, New York v. Frank Magliato. Convicted of depraved murder when his cocked Colt Detective Special revolver went off unintentionally an instant before he should have fired intentionally, Magliato appealed. The higher court only reduced the conviction to manslaughter.

The "hair trigger" case Massad Ayoob is referring to is People (of NY) v. Magliato. Magliato, who was charged with murder of a man named Schneider, attempted to argue that his revolver went off by an accident because of it's "hair trigger." A Mod on another forum attempted to bring up an Ayoob article and the aforementioned court case to support his argument against trigger jobs and aftermarket triggers. My response is below:

Magliato's Ferrari was hit by Schneider. They traded insults, Schneider brandished a club, and then they both drove off. Magliato followed Schneider to see were he was going. Magliato then went home, grabbed his gun, and went back armed to were Schneider parked. Schneider came out of his vehicle with a club in hand again. Magliato took aim and shot him in the head. Magliato then got into his car, drove away from the scene, and hide his car. He turned himself in 6 days later. His defense was that the cocked his Colt .38 revolver went off by accident after a car went by and brushed him back. It was argued by the prosecutor that any reasonable person should have know that cocking the hammer on a revolver, taking aim, and putting your finger on a trigger that would go off with just .12" of pull would result in an "unjustifiable risk of firing it unintentionally."

I knew there were other factors. He drove away from the scene, went home, got a gun, drove back, cocked the hammer on the revolver, took aim, left the scene of the crime, hide for several days, and then tried to claim the gun went off by accident. His revolver wasn't even altered with a trigger job. The prosecutor brought up the fact that because Magliato took the time to cock the hammer and aim, that was proof that he wasn't in imminent danger else he would have had fired in DA mode.

The trigger weight and non existing trigger jobs weren't the real reason why he was found guilty. It was his actions before, during, and after the shooting. It was the fact that he cocked the hammer to begin with. I'm not sure how this supports your argument that bring a 12lb-14lb DAO trigger down to 10lb or a 6lb+ trigger down to 4lb=5.5lbs will land one of us who have more common sense than Magliato in prison. The prosecutor wasn't even "overzealous" and NEVER would have said anything about the "hair trigger" if not for Magliato attempting to use it to support his "it was an accident" defense/excuse. I hope that's not the only case you know of and that you're basing your opinion on.

The Mod had nothing to say on the matter after my post.
 
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I've been carrying a handgun for protection even before the Texas CHL was a thing and I got mine. I always carried a gun that was as reliable as possible, so when I was able to gather the funds I bought, after much research and deliberation the gun I have been carrying for over 2 decades. It is a Wilson Combat Professional in .45acp. It comes from the manufacturer with my four requirements. In over 3000 factory rounds it has never failed to function in any way. It has a 4lb trigger that breaks like glass with zero take up. It has tritium night sights and shoots consistently to point of aim. The price I paid for this gun is worth every penny I spent and if ever taken if used to protect my or my family members lives I will buy another Wilson. Simply because I trust the gun and manufacturer with my life.
 

Bassbob

SAINT
I've been carrying a handgun for protection even before the Texas CHL was a thing and I got mine. I always carried a gun that was as reliable as possible, so when I was able to gather the funds I bought, after much research and deliberation the gun I have been carrying for over 2 decades. It is a Wilson Combat Professional in .45acp. It comes from the manufacturer with my four requirements. In over 3000 factory rounds it has never failed to function in any way. It has a 4lb trigger that breaks like glass with zero take up. It has tritium night sights and shoots consistently to point of aim. The price I paid for this gun is worth every penny I spent and if ever taken if used to protect my or my family members lives I will buy another Wilson. Simply because I trust the gun and manufacturer with my life.
Great gun. If I was going to carry a 1911 every day, that would be the right one.
 
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