Thoughts on 25 acp???
- Thread starter Dadavis93
- Start date
Winchester67
Professional
Finally! The little vest pocket shoots way better than I am able to post pictures of it, I will say that.
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Jeff Cooper was an arrogant jerk. John Moses Browning created the .25 ACP to mimic the .22 Long Rifle ballistics from a 2" barrel. This is why it will generally outperform the .22 Long Rifle
1. The .25 ACP is a centerfire cartridge. It will go "bang" when a .22 Long Rifle cartridge may fail to fire.
2. The .25 ACP is a true jacketed bullet. It will always penetrate more deeply than the soft lead bullet of the .22 Long Rifle. Period, end of sentence.
John Moses Browning was not an idiot.
When someone disparages Jeff Cooper, I’m gonna have to say something.
The .25 ACP sucks for defensive use. Comparing it to the .22 Rimfire only proves the point.
The standard arguments for it say the same thing. Well, it beats not having a gun, is better than a sharp stick, etc. Here again, making my point. In fact, if given the choice between a .25, a .22, and a sharp stick, I’m going to ask for more info on this stick.
Well I’m not gonna stand in front of it!
No kidding. I’m not going to volunteer to be shot by anything. Again, “worse than not being shot” isn’t much praise.
But, but, what if that’s all you can carry?
If all you can carry is a .22/.25, you aren’t trying hard enough.
And there we are. Take the subject of defending your life or others as serious as it should be taken, and try harder to carry something more potent.
Not everyone is as "flush with money" as you may be. The 2nd amendment was about the right of everyone to keep and bear arms, not only those who can afford high-end implements.
As someone who has worked as an Armed Security Officer in poor neighborhoods, as well as wealthy ones, Those who couldn't afford anything better weren't living next to Jeff Cooper. They were living in the "ghetto" or the "projects".
These are the people who could barely make the rent and pay their bills. They can't afford to buy a $300-400 piece. You can save the "squirrel away enough money to buy a better handgun" for someone else. Every day they "save and wait," they risk being broken into, being mauled, or killed. Would you want to take that risk? Neither do they. Your arrogant attitude of superiority is disgusting.
Jeff Cooper wasn't God. He was a flawed human like the rest of us.
UC_Guy 1971
Custom
I'd feel okay with just a .25 (I need more mags for mine, 2 - 3 at least 
). But then again I've been known to carry a .22 and not feel like I was at a disadvantage.
If someone made a .25 that had sights as good as my LCP Max... dang. I'd have one in every pocket, and I wear tactical pants most of the time so that's at least eight.
). But then again I've been known to carry a .22 and not feel like I was at a disadvantage.If someone made a .25 that had sights as good as my LCP Max... dang. I'd have one in every pocket, and I wear tactical pants most of the time so that's at least eight.
So now the cost of a .25 gun relative to others has come into it? I guess I missed that new twist.
But that’s how it goes with the few supporters of such guns. The “ifs” keep appearing.
It’s great!
If you can’t carry anything else…
And if you compare it to a .22…
And if you can’t afford anything else…
And if…. Forgive me, but what’s next? My “arrogant attitude of superiority” is in my way.
But you got me. You’ve now convinced me that Jeff Cooper didn’t know anything.
HayesGreener
SAINT
I was in a couple tussles as a young officer where somebody tried to snatch my magnum. That is a religious experience, I tell you. Level II and Level III holsters had not been developed. I took to carrying a micro 25 in my uniform shirt pocket as a backup. Never had a lot of confidence in the 25, but it seemed better than a sharp stick in a struggle at intimate distance.. Several of my compadres carried similar in ankle holsters. I practiced contact shots with it at the range. We did not have 9mm micro pistols available in the day. If I were working the street nowadays I would bypass the 25 and my backup would be a 9mm micro pistol like the Sig P365 carried in a pocket holster.
HayesGreener
SAINT
As it should be
You seem to forget that not everyone has the money Cooper did. The "joke" is a poor one. Cooper was a fine Marine and an expert with handguns. Of this, there was no doubt.
He wasn't Superman, and he couldn't arm victims on the "poor side of town" with crackerjack .45 pistols. When some miscreant is murdering, robbing, or raping a victim in the lower-income neighborhood, are you going to hand out Gift Certificates for 9mm pistols at the local gun shop? Probably not.
They are going to shoot what they can afford.
Being small caliber doesn’t make it the smallest priced. A quick look at Gunbroker auctions ending within the next few hours shows that a 9mm pistol can be had for the price of a .25 pistol.
Even Jeff Cooper will tell you to get the 9mm.
As noted there are a number of far more powerful pistols that can be bought for the same $$. Caliber does not equal price. Hi points are cheap and fugly but the DO work. A decent quality .25 is going to be as much as a similar .38, 9mm etc. The only rational for a .25 is the size of the pistol. If deep concealment is a requirement it might fit. As an SD pistol? Nope there are a zillion better choices for the buck.
Condition1
Operator
If this is your first and only handgun and you plan on carrying it buy something else first. If you’re wanting one to add to your collection by all means buy one. Stay away from the cheap .25 autos Jennings, Titan, Phoenix. They are made very cheaply and were only meant to be fired very little. There was a guy in my home town that was being bullied by a guy twice his size. If he caught him in town the bully would slap him around. Well my friend finally got tired of it and one evening the bully was going to fight him again so my friend pulled out a .25 auto fired once hitting the bully in the heart killing him. So if you already have a .25 and that’s all you can afford right now it’s better than harsh words.
This is the point. Granted, the Jennings and Phoenix Arms weren't the best, but when called upon, they often worked. The larger (and more powerful) Hi-Point pistols have slowly taken their place. The cheap handguns were a "last resort" handgun and were not intended for extensive range sessions. The "Ring Of Fire" pistols have ended many a criminal career.
Remember: Anyone can die. It depends on where the bullet is placed.
RATPACKER
Alpha
I’d choose * a high powered, high velocity .22 L.R. over a .25 cal. Pistol , shooting any of the .25 rounds.
I say this even though I know of one individual being killed with a .25 round through his scull.
When it comes to penetration, the .25 has it over the .22 LR in spades. Reliability is another point where the .25 sets a strong precedent. More expensive than the .22 LR? Yes, but penetration and positive ignition allow the .25 to edge out the rimfire when and where it counts.
When you're at risk of being maimed or killed, you can't afford to hear a "click" instead of a "bang".
When you're at risk of being maimed or killed, you can't afford to hear a "click" instead of a "bang".
I don't think Jeff (John) Cooper is going to tell us much of anything, because he is dead.