testtest

Tiny Guns For Concealed Carry

Talyn

Talyn

SAINT
Founding Member
Tiny guns for concealed carry are very popular. Rob Pincus believes this is for two reasons. The number one reason for their use is concealment issues — in a word, carryability. People think they can’t carry a gun other than a tiny one due to the clothing they wear, the lifestyle they lead, or for comfort because of their body size or type.

www.personaldefensenetwork.com

Tiny Guns for Concealed Carry

Tiny guns have the carryability factor but are seriously lacking in shootability, which is critical if you intend to use the gun for personal defense.
www.personaldefensenetwork.com www.personaldefensenetwork.com

1698352749610.png
 
First of all, my primary carry gun (now and for the last decade or so) has been the SA XDs in .45 ACP. That stated, I disagree strongly with Mr. Pincus on this issue. I have carried and utilized effectively much smaller guns than the Ruger .380 he was calling "tiny" in his video, and I regularly advocate for a number of them. It is important to know that I also advocate for multi gun carry for those carrying a badge or credentials and even for some others who have higher than normal threat levels and also have considerable training.

The problem it seems to me is that far too many trainers are myopic in their thinking because their thinking revolves around what is going to function well on a range shooting at 10-25 yards. While sworn personnel need that kind of training, the average civilian gun carrier who actually discharges their gun at a perp on the street is going to do so most frequently at 6 feet or less. The requirements and logistics are different. Ask any real knife fighter if he/she wants a three inch blade or a 6 inch blade in CQC and you might learn something about the logistics. That is one of many reasons my wife carries a Bond Arms Bullpup as her primary and loves it. Her Baby Browning is for very close up encounters or as a backup.

Mr. Pincus is a very respected shooter and trainer. I just think he missed the mark on this subject.
 
Throughout my career I carried N or K frame revolvers, or 1911 or Commander size pistols both on or off duty. I never had much use for a tiny pistol other than carrying a .25 Beretta or Baby Browning as a backup in a uniform shirt pocket. And a short stint with a PPK on an undercover assignment.

I trained hundreds of people, many of them novices, and a lot of women. In my CWFL courses I laid out a spread of about 20 handguns from micro to full size for students to handle and eventually shoot in a course of fire. Some students came with a micro pistol that someone had chosen for them. I found it interesting that most novices gravitated away from the micro pistols to something of Commander size for various reasons. I was interested to see that novices consistently did very well with the Sig P320 compact. Trigger and ergonomics made a difference.

My requirements for a carry pistol is that it have sufficient power to get the job done, that the shooter be able to operate the action and controls, and that the shooter be able to hit the target. Ergonomics and ease of operation are important. I found that some of the micros had such a stiff recoil spring that some shooters could not operate the slide. Airweight revolvers present a recoil issue. Another aspect is that the shooter finds the gun difficult or painful, they will not practice with it.

I often speak of the Rule of 3's. That is that most lethal encounters will occur at 3 yards or less, 3 shots or less will be fired, and it is over in 3 seconds or less. The ultimate outcome is determined by a balance of Speed, Power, and Accuracy. Concealability is important but secondary to the gun having the requisite power, and that you can get it into action quickly and accurately enough to prevail.

For my purposes micro pistols are relegated to backup duty, and I will dress around my full size .45.
 
My normal shorts gun is a 911, but it gathered dust while I used a Max 9 this year. I think a commander sized gun is at a sweet spot for carry (maybe not shorts), but my back tells me to watch the weight. For me, a 17-22 oz. gun in 9mm seems to work. I do like the CSX, Max 9 and Shield, the latter 2 I shoot the best.
 
Many, many years ago I pocket carried a Colt Junior in .25 ACP because my job required me to be in very bad neighborhoods late at night. My employer also had a rule that carrying a firearm was cause for automatic termination. Fortunately that was only for a couple of years and then I began working in better neighborhoods with better hours.

I'm retired now and rarely carry a firearm but when I do, it's an LCP MAX with a 12 round magazine so it fits my hand perfectly and it adds very little additional height to the pistol. It also weighs less than 16 ounces fully loaded. I carry it in a sticky holster in my pocket. IMO, it's the perfect pocket pistol. I wish it had been around in my working days.
 
Oaktree45 said:
Many, many years ago I pocket carried a Colt Junior in .25 ACP because my job required me to be in very bad neighborhoods late at night.
Click to expand...
Many years ago I carried the same gun. My dad's uncle brought it back from WW II. He was a tank driver. That gun ended up causing me a bunch of trouble and still effects me to this day. Without going too far into details I will just say that prior to the early 2000s you were not allowed to have a gun loaded in your glove box. And in Missouri they liked to call that "Attempted unlawful use of a weapon".
 
ChanceMcCall said:
Ask any real knife fighter
Click to expand...
Oh come on. Who would that be? Remember REAL not some self-proclaimed expert because he has "studied" and practiced and talks a good game. (nothing personal just a grumpy old bast***, that's tiered of the knife fighting ninja b.s. and yes, I have been cut and stabbed and been involved more times than I care to recall)
Other than that, I generally agree with what you are saying. Too much training is centered around LOE and Military situations. Partly because that is where the instructor comes from, what the know, have experienced, is known to work and frankly what sells. No one's going to pay to be waterboarded, any more than they will pay to stand there all day and practice 3, 3, & 3.
 
"Real " knife fighter ? I've been stabbed twice in my life. Does that make me a knife fighter ? If so I suppose there are a lot of us on the planet. In reality "Real knife fighters" are guys who train with knives, but I seriously doubt they have ever actually fought with them. There is only one way to win a knife fight. That's to not get into a knife fight.
 
Bassbob said:
"Real " knife fighter ? I've been stabbed twice in my life. Does that make me a knife fighter ? If so I suppose there are a lot of us on the planet. In reality "Real knife fighters" are guys who train with knives, but I seriously doubt they have ever actually fought with them. There is only one way to win a knife fight. That's to not get into a knife fight.
Click to expand...
Think that makes you a “knife victim”.
 
My late friend Larry was a firearms instructor with DEA who spent much of his career in South America, or as a firearms instructor at the academy in Quantico. He also taught the finer points of knife fighting, which he was interested in mostly for developing defenses against knife attacks. Best defense once the attack begins: distance, and Mozambique
 
Bassbob said:
"Real " knife fighter ? I've been stabbed twice in my life. Does that make me a knife fighter ? If so I suppose there are a lot of us on the planet. In reality "Real knife fighters" are guys who train with knives, but I seriously doubt they have ever actually fought with them. There is only one way to win a knife fight. That's to not get into a knife fight.
Click to expand...

Like you and a couple of others on here, in my youth many, many, years ago I have been stabbed and slashed too many times which is a testament to the stupidity of testosterone and youth. That did not make me an expert but more likely an idiot. I have observed some talented folks in real CQC situations and most of them seem to prefer small karambit fixed blade knives which they used with devastating effects.

Personally, I hope to never have to use a knife in self defense ever again. Knife fights remind me of the song, The Winner.
 
ChanceMcCall said:
Like you and a couple of others on here, in my youth many, many, years ago I have been stabbed and slashed too many times which is a testament to the stupidity of testosterone and youth. That did not make me an expert but more likely an idiot. I have observed some talented folks in real CQC situations and most of them seem to prefer small karambit fixed blade knives which they used with devastating effects.

Personally, I hope to never have to use a knife in self defense ever again. Knife fights remind me of the song, The Winner.
Click to expand...
Using a knife in a self defense situation should be a last resort. It's one thing to use one when you have to to defend yourself against an attacker at close distance. That isn't what I suspect people envision when they think of " Knife fighting". Two guys squaring off with knives in their hands equals two idiots.
 
smallest handgun I carry these days is the Taurus 380 revolver in a hip pocket.

As far as knives go I carry two but they are a last and I mean last resort. They are to get me out of a bad situation I cannot get out of any other way short of dying. Why two? One for each hand so every touch I make with either hand cuts so they back off and I can E&E otlr thry just decide there is someone easier out there for thrm to go after.

20210529_130925.jpg


Knives are even after the Cold Steel Black thorn walking stick.
 
By the way, Talyn, thanks for the link. I like and respect Rob Pincus. His video was obviously slanted towards folks new to handguns. Not sure how this thread got off on knives. :)
 
somorris said:
By the way, Talyn, thanks for the link. I like and respect Rob Pincus. His video was obviously slanted towards folks new to handguns. Not sure how this thread got off on knives. :)
Click to expand...
It is my fault. :oops: I was trying to create an analogy about short barrels and small guns being harder to grab or deflect and introduced the tactical concept so discussed by martial arts/knife folk about short blades being impossible to take away or control. In the process I think some people who do not know me thought I was holding myself out as an expert on knife fighting- which I am not - and they might have wanted to take me down a peg or two,

I also have great respect for Rob and especially for his efforts in Indianapolis a few years ago.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top