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Ukraine Liberates Kherson

Bassbob

SAINT
I explained that above.

We haven't given Ukraine a blank check although the US has provided the lions share of the support. They're getting new old stock supplies not the latest stuff we have in the inventory.

What we're giving them (HIMARS, M777's, Javelin's, etc.) have allowed them to push back on the Russians.

Please provide info on how Zelensky is as corrupt as Putin. He's a war time leader that's more capable than our POTUS.
Please provide info on how Ukraine was even remotely a democratic society prior to the invasion by Putin.
 

Talyn

Ronin
Founding Member
Please provide info on how Ukraine was even remotely a democratic society prior to the invasion by Putin.
The Ukrainians have been trying since they achieved independence but decades of corruption from Soviet influences are hard to change. The same has happened in other Eastern European countries after the fall of the USSR. Change can happen slowly when it's deeply rooted.

It's no difference than the corruption that's deeply rooted in certain US cities that have been run by a certain party for decades.

The Ukrainians had their 2014 Revolution.


They voted for Zelensky in order to deal with corruption.


Then the Russians attacked as a follow-up to the 2014 attacks.

In a fashion the current war is helping to root-out Russian sympathizers.

And it took decades for Japan & Germany to change after WW2.
 

Bassbob

SAINT
The Ukrainians have been trying since they achieved independence but decades of corruption from Soviet influences are hard to change. The same has happened in other Eastern European countries after the fall of the USSR. Change can happen slowly when it's deeply rooted.

It's no difference than the corruption that's deeply rooted in certain US cities that have been run by a certain party for decades.

The Ukrainians had their 2014 Revolution.


They voted for Zelensky in order to deal with corruption.


Then the Russians attacked as a follow-up to the 2014 attacks.

In a fashion the current war is helping to root-out Russian sympathizers.

And it took decades for Japan & Germany to change after WW2.
Dude is a scheister T man. I'm not saying we wasting 54 billion dollars ( so far), but I think we wasted 54 billion dollars so far.
 

Talyn

Ronin
Founding Member
Quick Google search on Zelensky corruption brought a lot of stuff up. Including this.




Google search on Zelensky despot yielded even more. Google Tucker Carlson's opinion of him. That's interesting as well.
Tucker Carlson has a near-psychotic obsession with Ukraine. He should register as a foreign agent.

If Carlson had any balls he's get out of his basement & go to Ukraine himself and see what's going on there.
 

Talyn

Ronin
Founding Member
Dude is a scheister T man. I'm not saying we wasting 54 billion dollars ( so far), but I think we wasted 54 billion dollars so far.
I'm more concerned about the disaster that's currently occupying the White House & the folks pulling his strings.

I have no problem giving the Ukrainians the resources to defend their country from the Russians.

They're fighting & dying not US troopers
 

Talyn

Ronin
Founding Member
I've been a fan of T. Carlson for a long, long time but he's off the wall in regard to Ukraine.

He's gotten so popular he thinks he's the big dog on TV, but that's happened to others when they thought the same.

Ukraine will be the defeat of Putin. Russia is a dying country if you look at the demographics.
 

Hammer67

Master Class
Google Tucker Carlson's opinion of him. That's interesting as well.
With all due respect, Bob, Carlson is a pundit and talking head. I wouldn't consider him a serious journalist, and I sure as heck wouldn't consider him an educated geopolitical analyst who truly understands what is going on internationally. But he is very talented at being a talking head and getting people riled up, I'll give him that.

This isn't my thread, but for whatever my vote counts, I'd say let's keep domestic politics out of it. I know that for some people, the two topics are inseparable, but let's at least try to keep them separate before this devolves into something else, please.
 

Bassbob

SAINT
With all due respect, Bob, Carlson is a pundit and talking head. I wouldn't consider him a serious journalist, and I sure as heck wouldn't consider him an educated geopolitical analyst who truly understands what is going on internationally. But he is very talented at being a talking head and getting people riled up, I'll give him that.

This isn't my thread, but for whatever my vote counts, I'd say let's keep domestic politics out of it. I know that for some people, the two topics are inseparable, but let's at least try to keep them separate before this devolves into something else, please.
True enough.

I am not a pundit, but I did spend a few years at college studying Russian history, among other things of course, but I am a Russophile and I have many college credits to prove it. I mention this only so you understand that I am not repeating things I heard on the TV ( I don't watch TV incidentally). I also haven't been in school in quite a few years, but I do keep fairly current in world events and that includes Russia and eastern Europe. Without going into too great of detail you have to keep in mind a few things. First, there is a sizable percentage of the population of Ukraine who consider themselves Russian. And after all, prior to 1991 the vast majority of history has named the people in that land Russian. Their language ( "Little Russian") is more or less Russian, just another dialect. (The same goes for Uzbekistan and many other countries that are situated in the Russian sphere of influence). And even though some of those people have decided they want independence from Russia, they have never been interested in democracy. At least not until now, when they need help from the west. It's also almost certain that if they are successful in retaining their independence they will not in the end wind up being a democratic society. And Zelensky is provably corrupt and the government under him and before him has proved itself to be ridiculously corrupt.

It's only fair though point out that none of this stuff would have happened in the first place if western powers and the Biden administration had not entertained the ridiculous notion that Ukraine should be admitted into or come under the protection of NATO. The Russian invasion is a direct result of this stupidity. What would the US do if Mexico decided it wanted to become a Russian protectorate ? Loaded question I know, at least with the current administration, but.......
 

Talyn

Ronin
Founding Member
Examples of out-of-service and/or older weapon system being provided to Ukraine as part of the "draw-down" process.


The value assigned to these will be rolled back into buying new weapons for US Forces as part of the Congressional funding authority to Ukraine.

Also, part of that authority is to compensate the NATO countries that have supplied Ukraine with weapons.
 

SaltyMonkey

Custom
I explained that above.

We haven't given Ukraine a blank check although the US has provided the lions share of the support. They're getting new old stock supplies not the latest stuff we have in the inventory.

The USA is replenishing its stocks with new stuff with the $$ authorized by Congress when we send old stock to Ukraine.

What we're giving them (HIMARS, M777's, Javelin's, etc.) have allowed them to push back on the Russians.

Please provide info on how Zelensky is as corrupt as Putin. He's a war time leader that's more capable than our POTUS.
I appreciate your post and knowledge.
I understand the first initial waves of funding and supplies were universally backed by our representatives. It was my understanding that more recent pledges and commitments were “Executive” decisions.
 

Talyn

Ronin
Founding Member
I appreciate your post and knowledge.
I understand the first initial waves of funding and supplies were universally backed by our representatives. It was my understanding that more recent pledges and commitments were “Executive” decisions.
As with all bills passed by Congress the Executive office then has the authority to act upon that authority.

An Executive Action cannot be legit unless it's tied to an existing Act of Congress. However, some "Executives" try to take liberties with interpreting those bills (past & present).
 
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Recusant

Professional
Well, it looks like Russia has finally stepped in a big pile of stuff. News outlets are reporting Russian missiles struck Poland today and killed 2 of its citizens. Who thinks that the U.S. and Nato will look the other way and decline to use Article 5? Stay tuned on the edge of your seat to find out. We certainly live in interesting times!

 

Hammer67

Master Class
And here we go. Poland is definitely not going to take any **** from Russia, and isn't going to forgive this as an accident. It's just a question of what NATO does.
 

10mmLife

Moderator
Staff member
Founding Member
Missiles accidentally landing in a Nato country wouldn't trigger a full blown Nato response because the intention wasn't to attack said country. I'm sure the more likely thing to happen is the military will be put on high alert and Russia will get hit with more sanctions.
 
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