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What is Going to Happen to Springfield Armory and other Illinois Manufacturers?

C

ChanceMcCall

Master Class
Given that the Democratic majority in the House and Senate are certain to pass Illinois HB5855 and the Governor is salivating to sign it into law, what are Illinois based gun manufacturers going to do? They aren't going to have much time to leave Illinois. At least Illinois gun owner will have a year before their Hellcats, Saints, etc make them felons.
 
Elections have consequences. The Illinois voters chose the Democratic majority and are apparently happy about their decision. I hope the gun manufacturers had the foresight to make plans to leave the state should the Illinois state house go against them. Perhaps a shrinking tax base will shake things up. I hope that the gun manufacturers will stop selling firearms the LE in those states. I know that sounds extreme. I hate to see LE get the short end of the stick, but the gun folks need to start playing hardball.
 
Recusant said:
Elections have consequences. The Illinois voters chose the Democratic majority and are apparently happy about their decision. I hope the gun manufacturers had the foresight to make plans to leave the state should the Illinois state house go against them. Perhaps a shrinking tax base will shake things up. I hope that the gun manufacturers will stop selling firearms the LE in those states. I know that sounds extreme. I hate to see LE get the short end of the stick, but the gun folks need to start playing hardball.
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Correction.
Not all Illinois voters chose the democratic party and no some of us are not happy with the outcome either..
 
Wirenut said:
Correction.
Not all Illinois voters chose the democratic party and no some of us are not happy with the outcome either..
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Sorry Wirenut. I know the people who didn't vote for democratic candidates are not happy at all. We went throught the same thing in Va in 2020 when our General Assembly voted in a bunch of bad gun laws which we are still not able to over turn. The only reason we didn't end up with a ban on magazines and ARs is that VCDL staged a huge rally at the state capital where 30 thousand plus gun owners showed up and the Democrates from rural areas saw the hand writing on the wall and decided not to support the bill that the urban Democrates wanted. The 2023 state elections will determine what happens here going forward. Organize and let your voices be heard.
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A note: the folks inside the fence on the hill were not allowed to carry a firearm on the capital grounds. Most of the folks outside the fences were carrying either openly or concealed. Many attendees were carrying their ARs. What you see here was only a part of the crowd. It was a sight to see.
 
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We can only hope that there will be an amendment to the bill.
I believe that AR ban is a done deal, but I hope the magazine capacity will go away, especially if LEO's will have to abide when off duty.
Rumor has it that various organizations already have seven lawsuits ready when he signs this bill.
 
Wirenut said:
Correction.
Not all Illinois voters chose the democratic party and no some of us are not happy with the outcome either..
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Correct, I sure in the heck never chose this horsehockey!
The problem lies in the top north east corner. The whole state with the exception of that corner could vote against it yet the numbers of that corner trounce the rest of the state.
They cannot even control their corner so they try and control the rest.
Iroquois county has constructed a bill that will hopefully allow it to forbid enforcement of the bill governor Flintstone is rabidly waiting to sign!
Hopefully we can get other counties on board.
 
Wirenut said:
We can only hope that there will be an amendment to the bill.
I believe that AR ban is a done deal, but I hope the magazine capacity will go away, especially if LEO's will have to abide when off duty.
Rumor has it that various organizations already have seven lawsuits ready when he signs this bill.
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I don't want any pleading for a reduced stomping on our 2A right. I said in another thread that since the Bruen decision , we firearm owners need to start demanding they honor our rights . If not we need to fight . No more negotiating with the anti gunners.
 
Pitdogg2 said:
Correct, I sure in the heck never chose this horsehockey!
The problem lies in the top north east corner. The whole state with the exception of that corner could vote against it yet the numbers of that corner trounce the rest of the state.
They cannot even control their corner so they try and control the rest.
Iroquois county has constructed a bill that will hopefully allow it to forbid enforcement of the bill governor Flintstone is rabidly waiting to sign!
Hopefully we can get other counties on board.
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I believe there is still a glimmer of hope, there is another meeting Tuesday on this bill and there are more witness slips to reject the governors bill than for it and on another note a judge so far stopped an ordinance in Naperville banning the sale of AR's in their city.
 
So I know the list of manufacturers would include Springfield Armory, Krebs and I think Zasatava has their US-based modification plant in the Chicago area...any others that may be affected? I'd say come on up to WI, but we are anything but a conservative state. There's got to be several more little shops (like Krebs) that make and/or work on evil guns.
 
All these states passing these unconstitutional gun bans are going to be sued and eventually the SCOTUS will have to intervene. They are blatantly ignoring the Bruen decision and the constitution. The problem is it will take years before the SCOTUS ever hears those cases and god knows if they will address those things adequately enough to prevent people from voting to pass unconstitutional laws.
 
Bassbob said:
All these states passing these unconstitutional gun bans are going to be sued and eventually the SCOTUS will have to intervene. They are blatantly ignoring the Bruen decision and the constitution. The problem is it will take years before the SCOTUS ever hears those cases and god knows if they will address those things adequately enough to prevent people from voting to pass unconstitutional laws.
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And it's not like SA or any of them can afford to just close the doors for 2-5 years and wait for legal action. They will have to either send a huge amount of cash to their corrupt rep(s) to carve out an exemption, or move.
 
As I mentioned in another thread on this subject Springfield Armory can do what Mossberg did when Connecticut banned AR platform rifles, although during the time I worked for them they machined parts for their MMR and shipped all parts (using company owned trucks) to their assembly plant in Texas for assembly, warehousing and shipping.
SA could leave their company headquarters and engineering department where they are now and do everything else in a gun friendly state.

Not easy or inexpensive but doable.
 
Keystone19250 said:
As I mentioned in another thread on this subject Springfield Armory can do what Mossberg did when Connecticut banned AR platform rifles, although during the time I worked for them they machined parts for their MMR and shipped all parts (using company owned trucks) to their assembly plant in Texas for assembly, warehousing and shipping.
SA could leave their company headquarters and engineering department where they are now and do everything else in a gun friendly state.

Not easy or inexpensive but doable.
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Yea, but the way I read the law it states manufacturing, does this also mean the parts? If so SA is screwed, also does this also mean any LEO guns?
 
Jfal said:
And it's not like SA or any of them can afford to just close the doors for 2-5 years and wait for legal action. They will have to either send a huge amount of cash to their corrupt rep(s) to carve out an exemption, or move.
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They can only move.. Last time they tried to lobby to be excluded for a gun bill, the firearm community had a major temper tandem. IMHO, they should have planned to move way back in 2017.
 
12/15/22 HB 5855 Meeting

HB5855 Meeting Notes

  • 10:20 AM - Meeting has begun. Chairman Slaughter leads the meeting.
  • NOTE: Rep. Denyse Stoneback is the woman who stated “assault weapons are akin to nuclear weapons” She is present in the meeting.
  • 16 committee members are present at this meeting
  • 10:24 AM - Slaughter states “Recently we have created an Office of Firearm [Violence] Prevention. We are trying to bridge the gap of the narrative.
  • 10:26 AM- Representative Morgan, who presented and submitted HB5855, is at the meeting. He states “This legislation would harness the power of ISP to crack down on guns being trafficking through Indiana and Missouri. Also looking to limit the age to 21. Strengthening red flag laws up to a year, not just 6 months. Todays hearing will be policy arguments against this legislation.”
  • 10:29 AM- Slaughter says the first panel will be those who are “experts of data and research.”
  • 10:30 - Someone comes up to testify as part of a violence prevention task force. States that COVID-19 brought instability to socioeconomic factors to Illinois and due to increase gun purchases. States blacks are 74x more likely to die by firearms than whites. Gun violence impacts rural and urban counties. The more rural the country, the more prevalent gun suicides are compared to cities. Assault weapons are cause of 22-36 deaths annually. 1/3 of mass shooting involve an assault weapon. It should be noted that the definition of assault weapon is not defined by the ATF.
  • 10:35 AM - Same speaker brings up the importance of fundings to address root causes of social inequality. Community funding is mentioned. It should be noted the bill does not mention doing so. “It is expected that there will be funding of 5.5 million annually on red flag enforcement”
  • 10:40 AM - A UIC Crime Lab Evaluator speaks on the issue. “The US homicide rates is 7x higher compared to other industrialized nations.” “We believe that we can review impacts [of the ban] once policies are implemented.”
  • 10:44 AM- Secretary Patterson, the leader of Department of Human Services speaks. “As of Jan 2022 more than 70 million dollars are committed to the effort and 90 million by 2024 on firearms prevention.” “Because of ease of access of assault weapons and high capacity magazine, incidents like Highland Park and the Halloween shooting [involving 16+ victims in one incident] took place.” “All progress of violence prevention is undone because of political inaction.”
  • 10:50 AM - Representative Stoneback speaks. She asks what data that would like to be collected [to the UIC Crime Lab] to get results. The UIC Crime Lab representative is asking for “transparency.” “Include information of source of firearms that are recovered as part of the AWB. Crime Labs works with CPD and ATF. Making information those pieces would make impacts on tracking incarcerations.” “A live dashboard to document incidents and law enforcement actions would help show impacts of this law.” In short, asking for government funding for tracking data.
  • 10:53AM - Representative Tony McCombie states “I know handguns are more used for crimes. Is it the intention of the committee or chair to outlaw. Handguns across the board?” Representative Morgan, who presented this bill says “No. No outright ban on handguns. Just guns that can take high capacity magazines (The definition of this being anything over 10 rounds to the committee). It should be noted that Heller ruled bans on handguns as unconstitutional.
  • 10:54 AM- Tony McCombie asked “Will there be additions to the bill to outlaw handguns.” Was asked. Representative Morgan, who presented the bill, says “There is no current or future intention to ban handguns”
  • 10:56 AM - It was stated by a representative “This legislation does not involve any funding regarding registration of firearms”
  • 10:59 AM - Tony McCombie asked if the IFP (Illinois Fraternal Order of Police - A police union group) is in support of this bill? Morgan replies that “IFP Speaker will be speaking on Tuesday”
  • 11:01 AM - A representative asks questions on the red flag laws. She asked if the red flag was utilized to track. Secretary Patterson, Department of Human Services replies “I would lean towards that the red flag law has not had impacts to the community due to it being a new enforcement”
  • 11:01 AM - A representative states “I have never advocated for a ban of handguns. But I do believe there is no place for private ownership of assault style weapons. I think that is something that is not going to protect your home. A handgun can do that. You can possibly do more harm than good with an assault weapon when using it to protect your family.” She is expected to finish her term in January.
  • 11:03 AM - Rep Strongback speaks. Stating “the FRO (red flag law) should be implemented further and should seek further funding.”
  • 11:10 AM- The Second Panel begins speaking.
  • 11:12 AM - Leo Smith begins speaking on the issue. He speaks in support of the AWB. “Multiple victim incidents are 1/3 of the violence in Chicago in 2022. Single incidents are down 20%, but not multiple incidents. An assault of high capacity magazines lead to high disorientation and impacts against progress on violence prevention.” “As ambitious as this bill is, it's important to review changes that can also be done” “Well over 80% if our frontline workers have background.” It should be noted that the person seems to be petitioning for funding for funding on his program, and not speaking much on AWB outside of supporting it.
  • 11:19 AM- A speaker who states they were a soldier [Note: I do not believe US. Likely Israel Defense Force] and saying he deployed with an AR-15. “As my grandparents were victims of the holocaust, we cannot be bystanders” “Changes in policing for Rhode Island helped bring down homicides.” “Chicago could have 3x the GDP if it were able to solve all violence issues.” “Investment in communities are very important. Mental health support. It should be [done] now, without argument.” “I applaud you for what you are trying to do. Last night, I sent a team to a trauma hospital and witnessed 20 bullets in a cup recovered from the victim.”
  • 11:29 AM through 11:39 AM - Speaker talking about violence prevention is key. Not just this bill. The bill will not stop inherit feelings to commit violence to thrive.
  • 11:42 AM- Leo Smith states “More than 50% of violence in Chicago’s South Side takes place in 8 block area. More than 80% of Chicago’s West Sides violence takes place in a 6 block radius”
  • 11:48AM- Representative Ford states “90% of firearm victims are male. Blacks are disproportionate on that statistic.” The question is asked “Would passing HB5855 have zero impacts on crime? Are we wasting our time?”
11:48AM- Replied: “Chicago police confiscates more than 13k weapons a year. More than LA and NYC. As an Israeli, we have less private ownership. We gotta change the system. Politicians have bloods on their hands. 40k homicides in 60 years [Note: unsure if Chicago stats or for US].” It should be noted that he did not answer if the bill passing would make any impacts.
  • 11:50AM- “All data indicates that reducing access to high powered weapons will reduce violence in our neighborhoods and through the state.” “There is no data whatsoever that contradicts that fact. All data supports banning these weapons”
  • 12:15PM - I put myself in the group to discuss.
  • 12:16PM - Third panel begins speaking. Brings up statistics on Chicago crime, school shootings.
  • 12:36 PM - A representative of Moms Demands Action speaks. Speaking of her son being a victim, and the AR-15 being the tool of destruction. “AWB was in Highland Park, but laws are only as good as neighborhood and neighboring states”
  • 12:53 PM- A victim of gun violence stated “There needs to be a way to remove firearms from others who are a danger to themselves or others. To those who oppose, don’t turn a deaf ear, we have to do something”
  • 1:01 PM- A student trauma specialist for East St Louis, IL speaks on data. Stating 13 students were shot through the school year.
  • 1:02PM- Representative Stoneback [who stated assault weapons are WMD’s and we do not have civilians do not have nukes] stated “That is incredibly important for us to passing. Shame on us for not having a national AWB, and shame on us for not passing one for Illinois. That this is long overdue. I am hearing that we need to do more. I am hearing we need to increase red flag laws. We need transformational change”
  • 1:08 PM - LiveFree Illinois representative speaks up. Work to address gun violence. She states while in support to the bill, that it will do nothing to make people safer that are vulnerable. That the bill may target those in black/brown violence. More funding needs to be in lower income neighborhoods. “Although Highland Park has brought up the discussion. Chicago and Rockport have been dealing with this issue on a daily basis.”
  • 1:14PM - I speak. Speech will be posted below.
  • 1:25PM - A person speaking on Highland Park incident. Witness testimony on the issue. States the ban will do no good to stop any ill will.
  • 1:58PM - When representative Ford asked the question “What do you want to do about the crimes?”
    “If you were in a situation where family, what would you prefer for police to be faced with”
  • 2:00PM - Rep. Tony McCombie speaks against how we are being treated compared to those who spoke in support of the bill.
  • 2:04 PM - MDA panelist speak saying its bipartisan and that gun owners want to pass this bill. “We don’t have a training requirement for firearm ownership, which is a problem in itself”
  • 2:06 PM - Slaughter stated “Both sides of the aisle, that this is an area of space and topic across the spectrum. We have a problem and not doing anything is insanity.”
  • 2:09PM Meeting ended
 
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