Since getting back to 1911's and getting my Ronin I have been looking at older conversations and seeing a lot of back and forth about MIM parts. Kimber's bad because of all the MIM, ditto for RI, Springfield, Colt, Ruger. MIM, when done correctly, makes a good part. It has been used in aerospace for decades, S&W changed to MIM for their hammers and triggers some time back with a few early issues but refined until they require less fitting and are holding up well ( Not as pretty as the old forged, machined case hardened one though) Colt has used MIM even longer then S&W. If S&W, Colt etc trusts MIM for high stress parts like the hammer and trigger I think I'll trust it for parts on my Springfield. I have looked at my Ronin's Slide stop, Hammer, Grip safety etc and I have no complaints. Besides; if a part breaks I have a life time warranty.
Why do people think MIM parts are no good?
- Thread starter Scevaph
- Start date
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nmedge
Guest
My Sig P365 firing pin was MIM and it was junk! Thats why
Annihilator
Hellion
Early MIM had many issues, on S&W revolvers, you have to be very careful if doing a trigger job, or on a 1911, MIM parts are just surfaced hardened, not like a forged part. If properly done right, MIM should be no problem, extensive dry firing any striker pistol with no snap cap could break the MIM firing pin, not just on Sig, but Springfield also plus others, MIM is just easier and more cost efficient for gun manufacturing due to little fitting required
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nmedge
Guest
No dry firing involved, broke using live ammo and smug customer service. Pistol was never dry fired. Sig motto: Cheap to build but expensive to purchase.
Annihilator
Hellion
Wasn’t referring to your post, but yea, I know what your talking about, Sigs CS could take a page out of Springfield’s CS, which is top notch,
HansGruber
SAINT
Yet, none of the high-end makers use MIM…and Springfield doesn’t use them in their Professional models, either.
So…while they might be “good enough”, they aren’t as good as tool steel.
There’s probably a carry over from the first generation MIM were to be desired. We have moved way past that some people hold onto old tales.
The fact of the matter most people that “bi$&h” about MIMs aren’t they type of shooters that are going to wear them out anyway.
I had a used Springfield Mil Spec 1911 that was my Father’s Day gift in 1992 I shot thousands of rounds through without any MIM breakage.
I have a year old new SA Operator I have about 1,500 rounds through and amazingly no parts breakage. And Ditto for a couple newer S&W revolvers (with the lock gasp) that I have several thousand rounds through and no MIM parts breakage and no the lock has never got activated through recoil and tie up the action like the internet said would.happen!
people just hear something and run with it without even knowing. It happened once but is repeated thousands
Reminds me of that line “that one time at band camp”!!!
The fact of the matter most people that “bi$&h” about MIMs aren’t they type of shooters that are going to wear them out anyway.
I had a used Springfield Mil Spec 1911 that was my Father’s Day gift in 1992 I shot thousands of rounds through without any MIM breakage.
I have a year old new SA Operator I have about 1,500 rounds through and amazingly no parts breakage. And Ditto for a couple newer S&W revolvers (with the lock gasp) that I have several thousand rounds through and no MIM parts breakage and no the lock has never got activated through recoil and tie up the action like the internet said would.happen!
people just hear something and run with it without even knowing. It happened once but is repeated thousands
Reminds me of that line “that one time at band camp”!!!
Old_Me
Emissary
the one and only part i change out on ANY 1911, is the MSH, IF it is "plastic"..i just have no confidence in that part.
all other parts of a 1911, can be MIM, and yes, many are, and if one breaks, i'll either replace it myself, or ship it back for repairs.
no one company is "bad" overall, just a person's opinion either on actual experiences with THAT company, or
"hearsay" from others.
i have owned, Rock Island, Girsan, Tisas, and never any issues with them, i have sold them, to cull my herd of guns.
but i have also sold other guns, with no qualms on doing so.....
there are "purists" in everything, one being "Harley-Davidson" that "it must be 1000% American built, American parts etc...
uh......there ARE foreign made parts......in Harleys...........so much for being 1000% American......
Harleys sold in the U.S. are indeed assembled in one of four plants located in Wisconsin, Missouri and Pennsylvania. But the brakes and clutch are imported from Italy, the engine pistons are made in Austria, the bike suspension comes from Japan, and other electronic components originate in Mexico and China.
Why it Doesn't Matter if a Harley is 'Made in America'?
This article was originally published on The Conversation. Read the original article. Harley-Davidson was one of the president’s favorite companies less than six months ago. Now it’s the latest business to feel his wrath. That’s because on June 25, Harley-Davidson announced it will move some of...
www.100daysinappalachia.com
the one and only part i change out on ANY 1911, is the MSH, IF it is "plastic"..i just have no confidence in that part.
all other parts of a 1911, can be MIM, and yes, many are, and if one breaks, i'll either replace it myself, or ship it back for repairs.
no one company is "bad" overall, just a person's opinion either on actual experiences with THAT company, or
"hearsay" from others.
i have owned, Rock Island, Girsan, Tisas, and never any issues with them, i have sold them, to cull my herd of guns.
but i have also sold other guns, with no qualms on doing so.....
there are "purists" in everything, one being "Harley-Davidson" that "it must be 1000% American built, American parts etc...
uh......there ARE foreign made parts......in Harleys...........so much for being 1000% American......
Harleys sold in the U.S. are indeed assembled in one of four plants located in Wisconsin, Missouri and Pennsylvania. But the brakes and clutch are imported from Italy, the engine pistons are made in Austria, the bike suspension comes from Japan, and other electronic components originate in Mexico and China.
Why it Doesn't Matter if a Harley is 'Made in America'?
This article was originally published on The Conversation. Read the original article. Harley-Davidson was one of the president’s favorite companies less than six months ago. Now it’s the latest business to feel his wrath. That’s because on June 25, Harley-Davidson announced it will move some of...
Mentioning vehicles I got a laugh because my Father in law is on that purist time but he doesn’t know what he doesn’t k ow (and won’t believe factual articles from factual publications)
He is a pro USA made guy which I respect however in the global economy that isn’t gonna happen with 100% stuff very often (at least with vehicles) he bashes Toyota and any other “foreign” born product even though Toyota has much more % made in USA then his beloved Ford or Chevy or Dodge. And same with HD but he’s a denier.
He also wanted to have some “valves” on a lawn mower redone and when my buddy who owns a mower shop told him it was a lot cheaper to replace the whole e as it’s to much labor intense (and today is a disposable item because of that lost art) he got mad and paid like 1,800 to a shade tree mechanic for one valve and ended up having to buy a new mower over it instead of about 900 for a new engine but some folks are stuck in 1965
Old_Me
Emissary
as you say, and many of us know, and i'm certain i am older the in FIL, is that it is indeed a "global" world as far as well...anything.
nearly all the "foreign" car makers are here in the states, and have been for decades now.
so what the money goes back to the father/mother homeland..people here are earning money building, repairing, selling those "foreign" companies, as the foreign companies are earning money from our American companies moving over to them...!!
i once bought a Chevy GEO Prizm, a "clone" to the Toyota Corolla.....BOTH made here in the USA, in CA.
it has BOTH chevy AND toyota parts.....
anyway, you can't change the minds of "closed minded" people....
i hope he knows too, that when he's buried someday, that casket he's gonna be buried in...??
might have been made in.....Turkey.....!!!!!!!!.............
as you say, and many of us know, and i'm certain i am older the in FIL, is that it is indeed a "global" world as far as well...anything.
nearly all the "foreign" car makers are here in the states, and have been for decades now.
so what the money goes back to the father/mother homeland..people here are earning money building, repairing, selling those "foreign" companies, as the foreign companies are earning money from our American companies moving over to them...!!
i once bought a Chevy GEO Prizm, a "clone" to the Toyota Corolla.....BOTH made here in the USA, in CA.
it has BOTH chevy AND toyota parts.....
anyway, you can't change the minds of "closed minded" people....
i hope he knows too, that when he's buried someday, that casket he's gonna be buried in...??
might have been made in.....Turkey.....!!!!!!!!.............
Son arguments aren’t worth it. He wants to be antiquated there’s no law against it it’s his money next Tim he needs a valve redone LOL
Old_Me
Emissary
"son"...???
if i only were that young again.............
i Baptised Jesus.
i showed God, how the part the Red Sea....
i was one of the original 3 Wise Men....
and i bake up extra gooey-fudgy brownies for the grand kids...which in time, they will break out in thousands of zits.....
USMC6094
Professional
Because some of us came up on forged and milled parts, of which the only close comparison is wire EDM or billet parts.
Everybody has a preference, but compared to the old days, MIM parts are a necessary evil because they're CHEAP, they are not now, nor will they ever be the quality of those that came before.
Everybody has a preference, but compared to the old days, MIM parts are a necessary evil because they're CHEAP, they are not now, nor will they ever be the quality of those that came before.
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So, I own Sokolovsky Sporting Arms - maker of the Sokolovsky Automaster. If you want to shoot, not bury your guns in a safe, select a quality manufacturer whom you will know has excellent quality control and you should see no MIM part failures. My combat-match race gun is a Colt Series 70 Government Model in .45 ACP and it has seen ejector failures, grip safety failures and other failures that one would not associate with a Jack Kalajian-prepared Combat-range Primadonna...and it is a real COLT! As with ALL cast parts even with surface hardening, bubbles are a problem but there are x-ray and echo techniques that should reject inferior castings. A lot of the bubbles have to do with myriad factors such as surface to core temperature deviations just like if you eat warm chili beans and then drink an "Ice Cold Coke" - you will have bubbles, too. The best MIM process that I am privvy to is with Armscor. Since they are the oldest wartime 1911 factory on the planet and have quality control procedures in place that are older than most who post here, my Citadel in .45 ACP has gone over 50K rounds with literally ZERO failures and amazingly, ZERO misfires, stovepipes, or failures to feed. I paid $499 each, on sale for successive serial-numbered pistols, one for me and one for my Son and next to my Colt, all I can say is the Citadel is not better but certainly not $3 Grand+ worse. That is saying a lot since I have over $3,200 machine work, Millet Sights, Wilson Combat Ejector, slide decelerator, ramped, throated and all of Jack's other mods on my Colt from the late 1980's through the early 2,000's That's a lot of goose grease compared to a $500 off-the shelf supposedly tackle box Citadel. The reason I brought up Sokolovsky Automaster is because each one of those were hand-made, with hand-lapped fitting and all in 17-4 stainless. Paul Sokolovsky sold that gun in the early 1980's for $4,500. That gun would cost about $15 grand to reproduce, today and the last one sold at the Rock Island Auction in December, 2022 for about $25K because it has no MIM parts...so...MIM seems like a smart move unless you want an overbuilt pistol given today's manufacturing techniques, computer-controlled machining and robotic QC. Looked at a Korth, lately? Except for USMC6094, I suspect most of you won't use a well-built, MIM-emparted firearm to its limit so how bad can they be unless you get the one in a million (these days, granted) that had a cursory and/or inadequate QC review of (likely only one) of the MIM parts along the assembly line. Go Navy.
Dobbinsky
Elite
I hear tell that the Springfield Armory MILSPEC with MIM parts is known to burn 100K rounds without failure.
Dobbinsky
Elite
Speaking of Harleys, we could start a conversation regarding pre-1997 cam chain tensioner shoes and late EVO INA cam bearings!the one and only part i change out on ANY 1911, is the MSH, IF it is "plastic"..i just have no confidence in that part.
all other parts of a 1911, can be MIM, and yes, many are, and if one breaks, i'll either replace it myself, or ship it back for repairs.
no one company is "bad" overall, just a person's opinion either on actual experiences with THAT company, or
"hearsay" from others.
i have owned, Rock Island, Girsan, Tisas, and never any issues with them, i have sold them, to cull my herd of guns.
but i have also sold other guns, with no qualms on doing so.....
there are "purists" in everything, one being "Harley-Davidson" that "it must be 1000% American built, American parts etc...
uh......there ARE foreign made parts......in Harleys...........so much for being 1000% American......
Harleys sold in the U.S. are indeed assembled in one of four plants located in Wisconsin, Missouri and Pennsylvania. But the brakes and clutch are imported from Italy, the engine pistons are made in Austria, the bike suspension comes from Japan, and other electronic components originate in Mexico and China.
Why it Doesn't Matter if a Harley is 'Made in America'?
This article was originally published on The Conversation. Read the original article. Harley-Davidson was one of the president’s favorite companies less than six months ago. Now it’s the latest business to feel his wrath. That’s because on June 25, Harley-Davidson announced it will move some of...
Noooooooooooooooooooooo!
Yeah most mortal gun owners aren’t going to wear them out.
Hilton Yam who know more about 1911’s than all of us even mentioned it’s not a big deal on his 10-8 YouTube channel whem he had it. Man that dude knows his stuff I’m gonna pick up that new Master Class 10-8/Lipseys
Annihilator
Hellion
Only thing you have to watch with any MIM gun part is if you do any stoning on them, go very lightly, their only surfaced hardened and you can go right through the hardened surface easily, just sayin
Hertervillian
Operator
Tradition probably has a lot to do with it. I’ll bet the old timers bemoaned the loss of Damascus shotgun barrels.