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Why You Should Always Have Enough Gun: The Sheriff’s Take

I would argue that some of the guys here ( I’m looking at you Hans, Talyn, KF and a few others) DO have relevant data from firing 9mm and .45 through glass and Sheetrock. I myself have redneck data on shooting 124 gr. HST and 230 gr. HST through treated pine 4x4s. 🤣
 
My only issue with the article is if you’re having to shoot through a car door, sheetrock or even glass, you may have a hard time proving to the law that it was a shot in self defense and your life was in danger.
 
LEO for sure, but then you don’t have a lot of choice as to what you can carry on duty.

If you’re in your car, and being shot at, you should be able to drive away, especially if the other person is in a car (which would be a pre-requisite for having to shoot through a car door). And if you’re in your home, I’m not sure you really want to be blindly shooting through walls.

Could there be an extreme circumstance that these scenarios occur? I guess anything can happen.
 
LEO for sure, but then you don’t have a lot of choice as to what you can carry on duty.

If you’re in your car, and being shot at, you should be able to drive away, especially if the other person is in a car (which would be a pre-requisite for having to shoot through a car door). And if you’re in your home, I’m not sure you really want to be blindly shooting through walls.

Could there be an extreme circumstance that these scenarios occur? I guess anything can happen.
If i’m in my home, i’ll know where the rest of the family is, and shoot thru my own interior walls all day, every day in these crappy built structures to protect my family if the intruder is inside my home
 
If i’m in my home, i’ll know where the rest of the family is, and shoot thru my own interior walls all day, every day in these crappy built structures to protect my family if the intruder is inside my home
True... Inside the home is different. As long as you know exactly where everyone is. And as long as you know there’s a definite threat and not just a neighbor coming over to check on you.
 
True... Inside the home is different. As long as you know exactly where everyone is. And as long as you know there’s a definite threat and not just a neighbor coming over to check on you.
You said in your home.

if you are not willing to discharge your firearm in your home, then why own one. You said blindly. No person should blindly shoot a gun... period. You need to rethink your plan in your home, your method, means of skill and ownership of said firearm.

with regards to your vehicle statement as well
 
LEO for sure, but then you don’t have a lot of choice as to what you can carry on duty.

If you’re in your car, and being shot at, you should be able to drive away, especially if the other person is in a car (which would be a pre-requisite for having to shoot through a car door). And if you’re in your home, I’m not sure you really want to be blindly shooting through walls.

Could there be an extreme circumstance that these scenarios occur? I guess anything can happen.
Sitting in a parked car isn't extreme. Neither is sitting in your car, running or not, and someone slides up to the window and points a gun in your face.

Rolling gun battles. Someone just kidnapped your kid and is driving away. These are extreme circumstances, but they happen every day. More often in some places than others. And in any event often enough that it is helpful and reasonable to have some idea of how the ammo you're carrying will react through different media. It is preferable to prepare for the worst.
 
I’ll put some thought into what you said. But I was brought up with 2 of the big things concerning gun safety being make sure you know what you are shooting at and make sure when you fire, you hit what you’re aiming at. I WILL fire my gun in my home. I’m not sure firing through a wall falls into the category of knowing, seeing or hitting what you’re shooting at. And I’m not real sure I want to fire at a moving car with my child in it. What if I hit my child? What if my aim is perfect, but there’s a ricochet that hits my child?

I also will say that you can’t carry the appropriate gun for every circumstance imaginable. Most of us carry one firearm. And that firearm may be appropriate in one circumstance and not another. Let’s say you plan on carrying a gun based on the fact that you may have to shoot through a car door. You will have something powerful and perhaps be loaded with FMJ ammo in order to penetrate through that car door and have enough energy to kill the perpetrator. But let’s say you are carrying that same gun and ammo combination, but find yourself in an active shooter situation in a crowded store or park. In that situation, your bullet will go right through the perpetrator and perhaps kill someone or more than one person standing behind them. In this case, you want something that will expand and stop inside the threat, not go right through them with the potential of injuring or killing innocent people.

If you always knew what was going to happen, you could always carry the right gun & ammo and be prepared for that situation. But if you don’t know, you should probably carry for the most likely scenario.

Your home is a little different. You can have multiple firearms available and choose the most appropriate. But even if you know where everyone is, you still need to be aware of more than that. I have neighbors. I don’t want to shoot towards someone, have that bullet travel through my walls and into a neighbors house and hurt or kill someone there.

I just think things are much more complicated than basically, carry as much gun with ammo that gives the most penetration as you can all the time. Just in case you have to shoot through a car door or through walls. You don’t always want that much penetration...
 
I’ll put some thought into what you said. But I was brought up with 2 of the big things concerning gun safety being make sure you know what you are shooting at and make sure when you fire, you hit what you’re aiming at. I WILL fire my gun in my home. I’m not sure firing through a wall falls into the category of knowing, seeing or hitting what you’re shooting at. And I’m not real sure I want to fire at a moving car with my child in it. What if I hit my child? What if my aim is perfect, but there’s a ricochet that hits my child?

I also will say that you can’t carry the appropriate gun for every circumstance imaginable. Most of us carry one firearm. And that firearm may be appropriate in one circumstance and not another. Let’s say you plan on carrying a gun based on the fact that you may have to shoot through a car door. You will have something powerful and perhaps be loaded with FMJ ammo in order to penetrate through that car door and have enough energy to kill the perpetrator. But let’s say you are carrying that same gun and ammo combination, but find yourself in an active shooter situation in a crowded store or park. In that situation, your bullet will go right through the perpetrator and perhaps kill someone or more than one person standing behind them. In this case, you want something that will expand and stop inside the threat, not go right through them with the potential of injuring or killing innocent people.

If you always knew what was going to happen, you could always carry the right gun & ammo and be prepared for that situation. But if you don’t know, you should probably carry for the most likely scenario.

Your home is a little different. You can have multiple firearms available and choose the most appropriate. But even if you know where everyone is, you still need to be aware of more than that. I have neighbors. I don’t want to shoot towards someone, have that bullet travel through my walls and into a neighbors house and hurt or kill someone there.

I just think things are much more complicated than basically, carry as much gun with ammo that gives the most penetration as you can all the time. Just in case you have to shoot through a car door or through walls. You don’t always want that much penetration...


Well that's kind of the point. You can't always be completely prepared for any eventuality.

The choice could be A) Take the headshot at the driver or B) never see your kid again. I mean go look at statistics on child abductions. Especially child abductions by a stranger.

We have discussed here 1000 times with regards to shooting inside your home, overpenetration, etc. so I'm not trying to wade into that again other than to say that everyone's situation is different. If you live in suburbia or the city and your house is 12' from your neighbors house and 70' from the neighbor across the street you need to have a plan and the proper tools to be prepared for that situation. If like me, you live out in a rural area and have very little chance of a stray bullet going towards a neighbor's house you have to prepare for that situation. If someone is in my house in the middle of the night while I am sleeping there is roughly a 100% chance they were not invited and are not there to check on me. Nevertheless it is HIGHLY unlikely I will be shooting through a wall at them. It is possible that they could come into the room where I have chosen to barricade myself and are shooting at me then retreating behind the door frame though. In that situation I'm not going to be sitting there waiting for them to repeatedly poke their head around the corner to squeeze one off in my direction.

Anyway, most importantly I am not advocating for always carrying the ammo with the best penetration of inanimate objects. I'm merely saying that having some idea of how a round is going to behave going through various media is handy information to have.
 
Well that's kind of the point. You can't always be completely prepared for any eventuality.

The choice could be A) Take the headshot at the driver or B) never see your kid again. I mean go look at statistics on child abductions. Especially child abductions by a stranger.

We have discussed here 1000 times with regards to shooting inside your home, overpenetration, etc. so I'm not trying to wade into that again other than to say that everyone's situation is different. If you live in suburbia or the city and your house is 12' from your neighbors house and 70' from the neighbor across the street you need to have a plan and the proper tools to be prepared for that situation. If like me, you live out in a rural area and have very little chance of a stray bullet going towards a neighbor's house you have to prepare for that situation. If someone is in my house in the middle of the night while I am sleeping there is roughly a 100% chance they were not invited and are not there to check on me. Nevertheless it is HIGHLY unlikely I will be shooting through a wall at them. It is possible that they could come into the room where I have chosen to barricade myself and are shooting at me then retreating behind the door frame though. In that situation I'm not going to be sitting there waiting for them to repeatedly poke their head around the corner to squeeze one off in my direction.

Anyway, most importantly I am not advocating for always carrying the ammo with the best penetration of inanimate objects. I'm merely saying that having some idea of how a round is going to behave going through various media is handy information to have.
100% agree with your last statement!! Not that I don’t agree with anything else you said :). All I’ve been trying to say is that “having enough gun”, which is what the article that started the thread is about, can be relative. And you don’t always know what “enough gun” will be in every situation. But, knowing what you have on you and what it is and is not capable of when you are faced with a situation is VERY important.
 
LEO for sure, but then you don’t have a lot of choice as to what you can carry on duty.

If you’re in your car, and being shot at, you should be able to drive away, especially if the other person is in a car (which would be a pre-requisite for having to shoot through a car door). And if you’re in your home, I’m not sure you really want to be blindly shooting through walls.

Could there be an extreme circumstance that these scenarios occur? I guess anything can happen.
Here's a less than extreme circumstance:

As you're unloading groceries into your vehicle, an assailant comes towards you with the car door open and between you; as you back up and draw, they come up with a handgun—clear cut clean shoot.

You've got a solid COM shot—through the window.

No big deal, you say? Glass is one of the HARDEST objects for a bullet to perform through; harder than sheet steel, much harder than wallboard. Performance will matter...and not many bullets do well after striking it.

We can change the scenario to car trouble, the hood up, and needing to take a shot through it, if you like; there's plenty of not “extreme” examples to choose from.
 
Oh—and I hate to disagree with the Sheriff, but barrier penetration is more of a function of bullet design/performance than caliber; in fact, a 115 or 124gr 9mm FMJ will outpenetrate a .45 FMJ through several hard barriers, such as car bodywork.

HST, Ranger-T, Gold Dot, and possibly Remington Black Belt (haven’t seen enough data from them yet) all perform well as far as expansion and penetration after hitting hard barriers; Hornady Critical Duty also has good barrier performance—IF you are carrying a full-sized pistol (4” or longer barrel).
 
I always enjoy reading the Sheriffs articles and this one was no different.
I also will say everyone had very valid points in their posts on this subject.
Since we can’t carry every gun for every situation we have to compromise on carrying one that hopefully handles them all. And with that one gun we trust our training and situational awareness to make the best choices.
 
My wife talked with one of her aunts yesterday, and the aunt told her there was going to be a gun auction of an estate. She said the pictures she saw looked like a gun store!

For a lot of concealed (or open) carriers, though, financial considerations dictate only one or possibly two carry guns are practical. Each person has to make a choice when contemplating buying regarding which gun they think would be better "all around" for their particular situation. In a case like that, and not considering physical ability to handle a heavy caliber round, I agree with the Sheriff that it is better to err on the heavy caliber side. Hopefully, none of us will ever be in a situation where we will even need a .22 lr for self defense. If we do find ourselves in a life or death encounter though, hopefully we will have an effective enough caliber/bullet/gun/shooter combination to get the job done. :)
 
My wife talked with one of her aunts yesterday, and the aunt told her there was going to be a gun auction of an estate. She said the pictures she saw looked like a gun store!

For a lot of concealed (or open) carriers, though, financial considerations dictate only one or possibly two carry guns are practical. Each person has to make a choice when contemplating buying regarding which gun they think would be better "all around" for their particular situation. In a case like that, and not considering physical ability to handle a heavy caliber round, I agree with the Sheriff that it is better to err on the heavy caliber side. Hopefully, none of us will ever be in a situation where we will even need a .22 lr for self defense. If we do find ourselves in a life or death encounter though, hopefully we will have an effective enough caliber/bullet/gun/shooter combination to get the job done. :)


Which leads to a very important conclusion. Whatever caliber or platform you have on you, you should be proficient with it. A .22 mag. will kill almost anything if you put it in the right place.
 
Which leads to a very important conclusion. Whatever caliber or platform you have on you, you should be proficient with it. A .22 mag. will kill almost anything if you put it in the right place.
Exactly. Shot placement matters so much more than caliber. I won't argue that caliber does not have an effect, but if you can't land the shot in critical mass areas, it really matters little what size or weight brass your sending out.
 
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