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Critical Defense or Federal HST?

Mr.W. said:
Greetings. My EDC pistol is an XD S mod 1. I've always used Hornady, but am interested in trying the HST. Comments and/or suggestions? Good shooting to all!
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HST’s are known to be great! My real world preference is Speer Gold Dots from shooting deer with them in .40 caliber. I have seen them go through both shoulders on big deer out to 30 yards. My thoughts are if they can go through two pieces of deer hide and some bone I can trust them through thick clothes. Speer bonds the jacket to the lead core, not sure about the HST. The SIG ammo looks great in YouTube testing but lacks the jacket bonding process. Attached is a photo from last year deer kill with Speer in .40 S&W. It’s a free country, have fun testing and researching! Good luck!
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KindaOldGuy said:
HST’s are known to be great! My real world preference is Speer Gold Dots from shooting deer with them in .40 caliber. I have seen them go through both shoulders on big deer out to 30 yards. My thoughts are if they can go through two pieces of deer hide and some bone I can trust them through thick clothes. Speer bonds the jacket to the lead core, not sure about the HST. The SIG ammo looks great in YouTube testing but lacks the jacket bonding process. Attached is a photo from last year deer kill with Speer in .40 S&W. It’s a free country, have fun testing and researching! Good luck!View attachment 2458
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I use Gold Dot HP 124 in my 9mm CCW........I get them from a friend who is a cop and that is what they are using
 
I either will carry hornady or federal but i have tried civil defence in the my xdm 9m and when i had the glock 30s which is a 45.wicked stuff,me personally i prefer the civil defence.they are extremely quick and light but they can defeat 3a body armor.
 
Mr.W. said:
Greetings. My EDC pistol is an XD S mod 1. I've always used Hornady, but am interested in trying the HST. Comments and/or suggestions? Good shooting to all!
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I also carry a XDs 3.3 9mm. I use Speer GD 124gr 9mm+P, the same preferred Ammo of the NYPD. It has great reviews and performance videos. The Federal HST is another great round and very comparable to the Speer round. Good luck.
 
southtex said:
While I don't mix rounds in my carry gun I do in field guns being FMJ/Expander. In my state I don't think I could sell a 25yrd self defense shot. I do understand the impact of the different rounds at a target 25yards but not for sure on the relevance at 2-5yards. In my house distances will be relatively short and in the world not much further. To me the biggest impact of the different rounds would be penetration differences resulting in unintended consequences both for the victim and you.
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You're absolutely right - at 2 to 5 yards, it's not about the external ballistics so much as it is about recoil control.

Without truly quantifying, it'll be easy for pretty much any shooter to say "they're similar enough," but if that shooter placed themselves on the shot timer and shot to an actual scoring metric, a difference *will* be noted. ;)

Given that the equation is about accurate shots on-target - in rapid succession if-necessary to stop the threat - the compromises of such varied loading cannot be ignored.

To some degree, this is why the shotgun remains such an awesome weapon even today. The ability of the well-practiced shotgunner to achieve on-the-fly ammo selection to effect the necessary terminal effects is unique.
 
TSiWRX said:
You're absolutely right - at 2 to 5 yards, it's not about the external ballistics so much as it is about recoil control.

Without truly quantifying, it'll be easy for pretty much any shooter to say "they're similar enough," but if that shooter placed themselves on the shot timer and shot to an actual scoring metric, a difference *will* be noted. ;)

Given that the equation is about accurate shots on-target - in rapid succession if-necessary to stop the threat - the compromises of such varied loading cannot be ignored.

To some degree, this is why the shotgun remains such an awesome weapon even today. The ability of the well-practiced shotgunner to achieve on-the-fly ammo selection to effect the necessary terminal effects is unique.
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If I was shooting on a timer/scoring I would be shooting custom loads with little recoil, just enough oomph to keep the gun cycling and stay on target.
 
4FishLimit said:
HST is a fantastic round in just about all calibers. I'm a huge fan of the 230 gr +P flavor myself.

It's also extremely affordable, Target Sports usually has it for 50% off in the hard to find 50 round boxes. In fact they just started a new sale today.

9MM is $20 per 50

.45 is $22 per 50
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Do they have a web site?
As I do not think you were referring to Target's sporting goods section.
 
Epeeist said:
Not trying to be mean or pick a fight! I was genuinely curious as to rather or not you were making a joke. Assuming you're being serious and not just trying to "troll" folks like myself, my objections to the practice you were endorsing are as follows:

1. Point of Impact Shift: Different barrels and rifling patterns perform better with different bullet types, powders and overall lengths. While it might be a small difference going from 115 grain in one hollow point design with one powder to another, you are tolerance stacking by running multiple brands, bullet weights and configurations. This is maximizing your group spread from a mechanical accuracy point of view. That is irrespective of the shooter. You can lock the gun in a rest and see this effect.

Generally speaking, and this is very broad and weapon/shooter dependent, less recoil lowers POI, more recoil raises POI, within a given given bullet weight. Since bullet weight impacts recoil and slide energy, changing bullet weights from shot to shot exacerbates the effect. POI shift is also velocity dependent, so adding different burn rates of various powders with different bullet weights means you will be as inaccurate as mechanically possible in a given firearm.

2. Training: Irrespective of accuracy, changing the bullet weights and powders inside the magazine will result in every shot feeling different from the last. Consistent feedback is an important part of the muscle memory utilized in recoil control and learning how to drive a gun quickly from shot to shot and target to target. If your recoil impulse changes dramatically from shot to shot, you are making it more difficult to bring the gun back on target as quickly as possible in a given string. Its very difficult to find a shooting rhythm and ride the recoil if the recoil of the gun changes every shot.

3. Malfunction Inducement: By running your guns slide at different speeds and with different bullet shapes and different OAL in bullets, you are maximizing the situation where even a reliable handgun can choke up in feeding. Remember the shooter will also be giving different feedback to the gun with your grip via each shots recoil being different.

4. Gun Wu Wu: This last one is pretty unscientific, but I think most people who have shot one gun a lot will know where I am coming from. When you get used to one load and one firearm, you can "listen to the gun talk" during strings of fire. You don't need to see that you have fired your last shot, you feel the slide lock open. You know its getting time to clean it when the gun "tells" you its getting crunchy. You know immediately if you had a squib or some other issue because that shot felt different that the thousand or so before it. I know not everyone carries the same gun on duty day in and day out, or shoots tens of thousands of rounds a year in competition, but I don't know why you would rob yourself of the change to learn your guns "feel" by making it feel different every shot.
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I believe your YouTube education is essential to a Harvard or Yale! I also would love to use your education for some help. Is it possible for a Hornady critical defense. 25 cal 35 grain round to create a hole in a sheet of metal that is about an inch in diameter but it seriously looks like a rounded triangle. Could that happen?
 
Dandalion215 said:
I believe your YouTube education is essential to a Harvard or Yale! I also would love to use your education for some help. Is it possible for a Hornady critical defense. 25 cal 35 grain round to create a hole in a sheet of metal that is about an inch in diameter but it seriously looks like a rounded triangle. Could that happen?
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Can you give more specifics? Pics?

Sheet metal shouldn’t get the round to expand…it almost sounds like the bullet was keyholing (tumbling) when it impacted, and hit going almost sideways.

And I assume you mean .25acp?
 
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