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SHTF Scenario Definition

10mmLife said:
What extreme possible scenario could this take to be a real SHTF? This question is just to provoke thought on the worst outcome.
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I was just thinking from the healthcare provider point of view. As everyone has heard, short supplies of protective equipment. Being thrown into things that you wouldn't normally do like re-use masks etc. More front line workers will get sick because of it. Being kept away from family. Beyond that, the carnage of having to many people (in the hospital) with not enough space. Notice I didn't mention rooms or beds, I mentioned space. Mind you these people are all sick. Heard yesterday that an MD has a friend in one of the hotspots. They are placing mats on the floor with blankets in the lobby because they have no where to put people. Not sure they can even get to them all. We are making contingency plans of a similar scenario and actually have set up an off site "community hospital" where hospital employees from the surrounding area will all work together.
Maybe not on the level of SHTF that you were looking for being zoned into a specific building or area, but for folks on the front lines, the S has definitely HTF.
Just my thought.
 
jmcd said:
I was just thinking from the healthcare provider point of view. As everyone has heard, short supplies of protective equipment. Being thrown into things that you wouldn't normally do like re-use masks etc. More front line workers will get sick because of it. Being kept away from family. Beyond that, the carnage of having to many people (in the hospital) with not enough space. Notice I didn't mention rooms or beds, I mentioned space. Mind you these people are all sick. Heard yesterday that an MD has a friend in one of the hotspots. They are placing mats on the floor with blankets in the lobby because they have no where to put people. Not sure they can even get to them all. We are making contingency plans of a similar scenario and actually have set up an off site "community hospital" where hospital employees from the surrounding area will all work together.
Maybe not on the level of SHTF that you were looking for being zoned into a specific building or area, but for folks on the front lines, the S has definitely HTF.
Just my thought.
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Wow that is really eye opening! We are so under prepared for this its just insane! It's almost like going back in time.
 
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SHTF (to me) would be any event which causes a significant disruption in services and rule of law. This condition lasting for days, several weeks or months. When I say services, I am talking about Police, Fire, EMS, Grocery, Fuel, Water, transportation and shelter. It could be caused by civil unrest, weather, natural disaster, pandemic or war.
 
KASHIRA-3 said:
SHTF (to me) would be any event which causes a significant disruption in services and rule of law. This condition lasting for days, several weeks or months. When I say services, I am talking about Police, Fire, EMS, Grocery, Fuel, Water, transportation and shelter. It could be caused by civil unrest, weather, natural disaster, pandemic or war.
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That's a pretty solid definition!
 
10mmLife said:
In a civil war scenario how do we know who is hostile? Would you hunker down, go to the front or try and move to a safer area?
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In my younger days I had more than one location to move to. Once when on duty 2 people came to my house and tried to force there way in which put my wife and 3 children in harms way. At the time we had a German Shepherd who's duty was to take care of my family. He did well as he pinned one behind the screen door while the other one took off running. Another time we were headed home from a fellow officer's house when we were followed by a car that had several people in it. The secret is know your area and don't put others in harms way. I had a turn out place to go to and then started flashing headlights and horn honking ( no cell phone back the ) city PD showed up. I'm to days world we can't run as we are disabled but I have a safe room for my wife and her portable oxygen and I have a choke point. No one can get behind me and wife is safe from intruders. If it's a mass thing my son will be in route to get us out. There is another option which won't be discussed. No one can predict what form evil will come to visit but keeping family in the loop and learn about your local PD and some have emergency plans worked out for major deasaters. My wife and I have pass words which our families have and can be given to local PD if need be. There's a lot of things that can be done but keeping it simple because things can get confusing. There's probably a lot of simple things that many may know and as I learn more from others I look and see if I can incorporate good ideas into my plans. Yes we have supplies and know how to make a no smoke cooking fire , no propane tanks big or small because of oxygen needs fo wife. All of you stay safe, scribble down ideas then evaluate to see if sold.
 
Lots of good discussion here. I'll add some comments. We all are to a greater of lesser degree prepared for this. One of the best pieces of advice I received was - 1) Don't go out among folks during the first few weeks if at all possible. 2) stay as invisible as possible. 3) Don't get wounded as there will be no backup 4) be armed, be trained to the extent you can be 4) have barter items - surprised more folks don't talk about this 5) have more supplies than you need - neighbors kids or such might need a bit of help. 6) don't be a hero and stay out of things that aren't your business
 
Like most of the, eh, older persons here, I’m making no “Bugout” contingencies. I’m pretty well prepared here. The tricky part might be knowing if or when the transition from a temporary problem like supply chain issues ( pandemic) large scale power outages and other issues that will require regular emergency preparations becomes an actual SHTF situation.

Where I am it’s pretty unusual to see people, er, vastly different from me. Especially “ en masse”. Knowing when it might be a group of outsiders or city folk on some sort of “Field trip” for lack of a better term as opposed to people fleeing the cities in search of resources is gonna be key. If the former, situational awareness and heightened security measures are necessary. If the latter, the best, well only, option is to neutralize everyone you don’t know who comes into or even close to the territory you’re defending.
 
I’m a participant in CERT- community emergency response team. On the first night in a class of around fifty, the instructor asked us, “in an emergency if everyone made a local call to reach loved ones, how many calls would go through?” The answer was 6. He advised to have an emergency number to call out of the area. That out of area person would then make a call to your area to alert your loved ones. Population of my town is 160k.
Loose lips sink ships.
Never barter ammo, it might be used against you.
Those little alcohol samplers at the liquor store make excellent barter items.
Paraffin is a valuable commodity.
Learn how to use herbs and essential oils in place of pharmaceuticals.
Keep your CPR, trauma, first aid classes up to date.
Boy scout motto- “Be prepared.”
 
trader said:
Lots of good discussion here. I'll add some comments. We all are to a greater of lesser degree prepared for this. One of the best pieces of advice I received was - 1) Don't go out among folks during the first few weeks if at all possible. 2) stay as invisible as possible. 3) Don't get wounded as there will be no backup 4) be armed, be trained to the extent you can be 4) have barter items - surprised more folks don't talk about this 5) have more supplies than you need - neighbors kids or such might need a bit of help. 6) don't be a hero and stay out of things that aren't your business
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A lot of times a person must go out because of medication needed otherwise either or both may not see the sunrise and I will do what ever it takes to get those meds home.
 
Musashi said:
I’m a participant in CERT- community emergency response team. On the first night in a class of around fifty, the instructor asked us, “in an emergency if everyone made a local call to reach loved ones, how many calls would go through?” The answer was 6. He advised to have an emergency number to call out of the area. That out of area person would then make a call to your area to alert your loved ones. Population of my town is 160k.
Loose lips sink ships.
Never barter ammo, it might be used against you.
Those little alcohol samplers at the liquor store make excellent barter items.
Paraffin is a valuable commodity.
Learn how to use herbs and essential oils in place of pharmaceuticals.
Keep your CPR, trauma, first aid classes up to date.
Boy scout motto- “Be prepared.”
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I would add Bic lighters to that list of cheap items to use for bartering.

For a period of time, each time I stopped in a convenience store I’d pay the cheap price ($1?) and throw them in a drawer at home.
 
Anchorite said:
I would add Bic lighters to that list of cheap items to use for bartering.

For a period of time, each time I stopped in a convenience store I’d pay the cheap price (1?) and throw them in a drawer at home.
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A handy quick fire starter is a medicine bottle with cotton balls covered in Vaseline which is in supply bag.
 
It's interesting to look back on this discussion post Covid.

Before I say anything else, let me say Im I'm absolutely convinced Covid was a dry run. They found out that all they have to do to get the majority of Americans to give up their Civil Liberties is scare them bad enough.

AFAI Was C Covid, might as well have never happened. I was working as a Night Watchman at an empty warehouse on third shift. I saw the person I relieved and the person who relieved me. They never actually locked down Colorado but I had a letter from my employer designating me as "Mission Essential Personnel" in case they did.

I've said this before but during the shortages I asked my wife to take note of things that would have been useful that were hard to come by and if things ever eased up that's what we were going to stock.

That's what we've been doing for 4 years.

The biggest part of our "Preps" wasn't even our doing. As mentioned many times previously our daughter bought a plot of land out on the Eastern Plains and put a house on it for us to live in.

We moved out here about a month ago. and we've pretty much decided we're not going West of Ellicott Highway unless we have to.
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FWIW out here everybody has a backup generator and some are off the Grid entirely.

I talk about Xavier Breathe everytime this topic comes up. He's a blogger who lived through Katrina.

One thing that he mentioned was if everyone else is doing without electricity and your house is lit up like a Christmas Tree it will be noticed. He also mentioned that the sound of a gas generator carries for miles when there's no other sound.
 
Oldmountaiman said:
A handy quick fire starter is a medicine bottle with cotton balls covered in Vaseline which is in supply bag.
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Dryer lint works well and is a free commodity. My neighbor bot a large gas generator several years ago. I mentioned my concern for noise and what about gas? He replied, “we have a gas station just down the street.”
 
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