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Ayoob: Will Carrying a 10mm Hang You in Court?

Jester560 said:
Not this again...I cannot for the life of me see how anyone thinks this idiot is still relevant.
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Ooh, throw in some Colonel Jeff Cooper, and now it’s a party. Bigger is better and edgy quotes! What’s not to love?!
 
Massad Ayoob doesn't seem to make the point that one could have argued that the 10mm was actually "too powerful" for human targets and therefore it was an indication that it was actually carried to protect from the heavier black bears and not humans.
 
AndreCitroen said:
Massad Ayoob doesn't seem to make the point that one could have argued that the 10mm was actually "too powerful" for human targets and therefore it was an indication that it was actually carried to protect from the heavier black bears and not humans.
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That and it really doesn’t matter for a case study that was on a miscarriage of justice. Ayoob creates fuddlore as king Fudd
 
GPS said:
That and it really doesn’t matter for a case study that was on a miscarriage of justice. Ayoob creates fuddlore as king Fudd
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YES it was a prosecution over reach, but I disagree about the FUDD tag. He presented the case based on legal records. He simply presented the question for debate; unless youre seeing something different. If thats the case perhaps you could explain???
 
PieterCoetzee said:
YES it was a prosecution over reach, but I disagree about the FUDD tag. He presented the case based on legal records. He simply presented the question for debate; unless youre seeing something different. If thats the case perhaps you could explain???
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Ayoob has always been anti-polymer pistol and against anything other than 45 ACP, hence Fudd.
 
PieterCoetzee said:
Im just curious, what is he saying that you think is wrong? Im truly interested
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The entire outlook on the 10mil has changed since the Fish fiasco. That whole trial, re-trial refusal has been beat to death and proven it was ONE district attorney trying to garner attention in any way possible.
if anything, that trial can be used as case law against trying someone based solely on using a 10mm.
 
Jester560 said:
The entire outlook on the 10mil has changed since the Fish fiasco. That whole trial, re-trial refusal has been beat to death and proven it was ONE district attorney trying to garner attention in any way possible.
if anything, that trial can be used as case law against trying someone based solely on using a 10mm.
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The FBI tried to use 10mm too, but didn’t because some agents had hands that were too small for the pistols.
 
One thing that struck me funny and a point the article didn't raise, If you are hiking in bear country you carry a firearm of a caliber that you believe would be sufficient to stop the threat that you believe you could possibly encounter. 10mm is advertised as a " bear" caliber on many platforms. A 9mm or 38 for the most part would be a little light for bear but suitable for personal defense against other people. What I'm saying simply is the caliber he was carrying fit the conditions he expected he might come across, and the only firearm he had at that time and would have easily backed up his defense of why he was using such a big caliber. Ballistically the 10mm is close to a 357 magnum the same caliber many law enforcement officers carried for years.
 
DMS said:
One thing that struck me funny and a point the article didn't raise, If you are hiking in bear country you carry a firearm of a caliber that you believe would be sufficient to stop the threat that you believe you could possibly encounter. 10mm is advertised as a " bear" caliber on many platforms. A 9mm or 38 for the most part would be a little light for bear but suitable for personal defense against other people. What I'm saying simply is the caliber he was carrying fit the conditions he expected he might come across, and the only firearm he had at that time and would have easily backed up his defense of why he was using such a big caliber. Ballistically the 10mm is close to a 357 magnum the same caliber many law enforcement officers carried for years.
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I know several national ffirwarms trainers that have oretty relevent ballistic stuff they do be fine with a 147 gr FP 9mm as it punches through two blocks (32”) of gel, and with the proliferation of high cap 9mm thwre has been more bears killed (handgun wise) with 9mm tjan 10mm

But the 10mm church likes to argue. And what I find funnier is the ones arguing the most about “10mm and bear defense” have a 40 plus inch waistline so I doubt they are hiking in wilderness areas much!
 
I have read about this shooting in other articles. The jury believed that the shooter, since he was a Scout Leader and had basic first aid skills, could have done more for the victim. The defense could have reputed the difference between basic first aid and gun shot wounds, where internal bleeding occur, can not be addressed in the field except for direct pressure, which the shooter could not due as he had to leave to contact the authorities.

Also, I believe the victim was shot three times. Here, many of us understand that the shooter, in fear, simply shot until the threat was stopped. But as you can imagine, the prosecution would describe as excessive use of force. Such an argument by the prosecution could have been made regardless of the caliber of the firearm.

Remember that most juniors are not knowledgeable about firearm, most probably never have never even shot a firearm. And, as such, believe that the prosecutor, represent in the State, is an informed expert in the field. The defendant and his attorney are compelled to present competent witnesses to dispute the State’s accusations.
 
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