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9mm vs .45 ACP [Debate Finally Settled]

I consider myself a .45/1911 guy, but truth to tell, I'm more concerned with reliability, a handle that fits my hand, a trigger I can pull, and sights I can see than make, model, manufacturer, action type, and caliber--as long as it's at least .38 Special, of course.
 
Snake45 said:
I consider myself a .45/1911 guy, but truth to tell, I'm more concerned with reliability, a handle that fits my hand, a trigger I can pull, and sights I can see than make, model, manufacturer, action type, and caliber--as long as it's at least .38 Special, of course.
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I'm gonna utter heresy now...

When you look at self-defense shootings...by and large, if you can put hits on target...

The caliber is irrelevant.
 
Perspectives vary. At an instructor course a number of years ago I spoke to an FBI instructor who participated in the testing that resulted in the shift to 9mm. He agreed that the aggressor shot with either caliber wouldn't know the difference. He commented that disruption of important systems, and letting the blood out, were important to stopping an attacker. But he also commented that bigger holes will let the blood out faster. Medical Examiners and surgeons reportedly can't tell the difference. Many men went to their maker from both calibers. But I will stick with my Forty-Five.
 
Bassbob said:
I wouldn't say caliber is irrelevant. When comparing 9mm and .45 ACP, all other things being equal it may be nearly irrelevant. A guy I know carries a .22 auto because he is more accurate with it. :rolleyes:
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Thing is--it really is irrelevant in the vast majority of self defense shootings...and your buddy has a point. Hits matter, and end fights faster, regardless of caliber.

I'll be heading out in a bit to do the weekly shopping with a 8-shot .22 J-frame in my pocket, a speed strip, and that's it; I'm perfectly confident I'll be able to handle anything that is likely to happen.
 
HansGruber said:
Thing is--it really is irrelevant in the vast majority of self defense shootings...and your buddy has a point. Hits matter, and end fights faster, regardless of caliber.

I'll be heading out in a bit to do the weekly shopping with a 8-shot .22 J-frame in my pocket, a speed strip, and that's it; I'm perfectly confident I'll be able to handle anything that is likely to happen.
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IF you encounter two pilled up Meth Freaks bent on your wallet or auto.........will it be head shots then??
 
I always thought the reason that 9mm handguns carried more rounds was that it took more rounds to stop the adversary from doing whatever they were doing. ;)

I like the 9mm for concealed carry because they are smaller and lighter, but I have greater confidence in the .45 ACP when it comes to stopping power.

There is a lot of BS from people who have never been in a real gunfight. I get tired of, "Wow! A .45 can stop a guy if you hit him in his little finger". I once was involved in a serious social situation where it took 7 rounds of .45 ACP (all in the torso) to bring a perp down. I was there when a good guy emptied his S&W 59 (all hard ball ammo) into a bad guy (also torso hits) and the guy was still shooting back.

Yes, there is the drug user example, but neither of the bad guys were on drugs. From my experience, the mental toughness of the perp often makes the difference. I was also once in a situation where a perp went down from three .25ACP rounds to the head and neck brought him down. (The perp lived but ended up with an even lower IQ.)

In my opinion, the 9mm is popular in law enforcement circles because it is easier to shoot especially for weaker, smaller frame individuals and because the officers/agents can qualify with less training. Cheaper and less ammo is always popular with the number crunchers.
 
ChanceMcCall said:
I always thought the reason that 9mm handguns carried more rounds was that it took more rounds to stop the adversary from doing whatever they were doing. ;)

I like the 9mm for concealed carry because they are smaller and lighter, but I have greater confidence in the .45 ACP when it comes to stopping power.

There is a lot of BS from people who have never been in a real gunfight. I get tired of, "Wow! A .45 can stop a guy if you hit him in his little finger". I once was involved in a serious social situation where it took 7 rounds of .45 ACP (all in the torso) to bring a perp down. I was there when a good guy emptied his S&W 59 (all hard ball ammo) into a bad guy (also torso hits) and the guy was still shooting back.

Yes, there is the drug user example, but neither of the bad guys were on drugs. From my experience, the mental toughness of the perp often makes the difference. I was also once in a situation where a perp went down from three .25ACP rounds to the head and neck brought him down. (The perp lived but ended up with an even lower IQ.)

In my opinion, the 9mm is popular in law enforcement circles because it is easier to shoot especially for weaker, smaller frame individuals and because the officers/agents can qualify with less training. Cheaper and less ammo is always popular with the number crunchers.
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Thanks for your service chancemccall
 
HansGruber said:
If necessary.

But, you see, the odds of that happening to me are astronomically low…and I know that. Better chance of getting hit by lightning twice, in fact.
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The odds of ever having to use a gun in self defense are incredibly low. The odds of having to use a gun in self defense and it resulting in more than 3 shots fired are astronomically low. So why carry the speed strip? In fact why carry a gun at all ?

I wonder why it is that every instructor, that I know of anyway, teaches that multiple hits to the upper torso is the fastest way, under duress, to stop a threat ? Oh yeah, barring immediate demobilization by shutting down the CNS, massive blood loss is the fastest way to immediately stop a threat.
 
ChanceMcCall said:
I always thought the reason that 9mm handguns carried more rounds was that it took more rounds to stop the adversary from doing whatever they were doing. ;)

I like the 9mm for concealed carry because they are smaller and lighter, but I have greater confidence in the .45 ACP when it comes to stopping power.

There is a lot of BS from people who have never been in a real gunfight. I get tired of, "Wow! A .45 can stop a guy if you hit him in his little finger". I once was involved in a serious social situation where it took 7 rounds of .45 ACP (all in the torso) to bring a perp down. I was there when a good guy emptied his S&W 59 (all hard ball ammo) into a bad guy (also torso hits) and the guy was still shooting back.

Yes, there is the drug user example, but neither of the bad guys were on drugs. From my experience, the mental toughness of the perp often makes the difference. I was also once in a situation where a perp went down from three .25ACP rounds to the head and neck brought him down. (The perp lived but ended up with an even lower IQ.)

In my opinion, the 9mm is popular in law enforcement circles because it is easier to shoot especially for weaker, smaller frame individuals and because the officers/agents can qualify with less training. Cheaper and less ammo is always popular with the number crunchers.
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9mm is easier to shoot, statistically, for a greater number of variable types and sizes of people. Follow up shots are faster and more accurate than with a .45. Even for people like me that train with them and prefer carrying them. My time difference is small, but slightly faster with a 9mm and my accuracy is actually better with the .45.

What I am saying is that I agree with you.
 
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