Ayoob: Is .45 Still Better Than 9mm?

[Annihilator]

Well, he is a well connected writer and has been accepted as an acknowledged expert in court as a witness. He grew up around guns and has served for a LONG time as a Peace Officer. What other author pray tell meets your qualifications as a man worth reading?!?

I didn’t say I don’t read his stuff, just not all the time. I liked the old school writers of past, Col Jeff Cooper, Skeeter Skelton, Bill Jordan, these guys never came off as know it alls like Ayoob does to me, if you like him and his articles, great, but me I’ll pass when I can

 

[Winchester67]

Fair enough. But I think you are leaving a lot of Knowledge on the table. I grew up in what sounds like the same era as you did. As a small kid that was listening to the Columbia Conference...I learned to listen.

 

[Annihilator]

Fair enough. But I think you are leaving a lot of Knowledge on the table. I grew up in what sounds like the same era as you did. As a small kid that was listening to the Columbia Conference...I learned to listen.

Yea, I know, but I do scan his articles in American Handgunner if I think it’s something I may be interested in

 

[Sld1959]

Put a ton of miles carrying .45 acp, 44 magnum and .44 special, never felt underarmed. Started having pain and arthritis in the thumbs and my dr/shooting partner suggested I drop the calibers which start with 4, said it might slow progression and the pain. So...

Now carry 357/38 .380 and my first 9mm. Tested them all and still do not feel underarmed. One does what one needs to do...

 

[HansGruber]

Speer gold dot performs well, Remington golden Saber is a pretty good round, Barnes Vor-Tx is another good choice. All I’m saying is don’t compare the best choice of 9mm ammo with a round that isn’t the best performer in .45 caliber.

The 230gr HST, or 230rd Golden Saber is pretty hard to beat in the .45acp loads…there’s nothing a 185gr load will do better.

 

[Winchester67]

Well, no offense intended. I was offering my perception of the man, based on my decades of professional experience and personal albeit casual conversations with the man. I am sorry if I hurt your feelings. But I remain steadfast that he is the most significant writer of our era. Looking forward to hearing your response.

 

[ECS686]

The 230gr HST, or 230rd Golden Saber is pretty hard to beat in the .45acp loads…there’s nothing a 185gr load will do better.

When the FBI ran 1911’s as their SWAT handgun Golden Sabre’s were the issued ammo. Believe that was the required ammo the Professional had to group with (as well as the other manufacturers that submitted guns)

 

[ECS686]

The 60s when I was a Deputy were different from what your relating to and no NRA toilet paper at our office or department vehicles. Time changes a lot of standards in rules, laws and equipment.

There was a large PPC presence in the 80’s.

As far as quals yeah it has become a no cop left behind atmosphere. I was at my state academy running a line and a kid failed like multiple times couldn’t pass the last attempt. Before it was a your not a cop. The folks running the program dad “your still graduating but we will bring you back for remedial and qualify uiu just you” I was like WOW some stuff changed.

My own agency made a second qual course just for employment because they were sued by folks fired when they got to FLETC and were fired because they couldn’t grasp it.

Even the Air Marshals dumbed down their course I mean it’s still a little challenging but nothing like before.

So I have seen hat happen to and they doesn’t prepare cops for crisis situations.
Like I say (borrowed from Darryl Bolke) if we were professional guides we wouldn’t take half these cops in a hunt as they have shown they can’t make a heart lung shot on a huge B27 target but the state says we can unleash them in the streets and wonder why they shoot at a perp 15 times with none or one ineffective hits.

But they criticize me because I kept my 45 LOL

 

[belladonna]

I shoot both. I like both. I conceal carry 9mm because the pistols are smaller and lighter. I prefer to carry 45ACP when we are out in the woods up north, and I don't have to conceal the gun. I guess I'm simple.

 

[powerboatr]

i use both so ...
yes both are relevant IMO
as is my little 380 bersa thunder

imo its all about what clothes i wear as to which gets to take the trip

 

[Lab4Us]

I’m not one to engage in caliber wars (personally, I think one should be able to proficiently shoot them all). But I do have a question as I’ve never used a timer before. How exactly do they work. Do I have to push the go button, then draw and shoot? I can’t see how else it would time my draw to first shot, and pushing that button then rushing to draw seems it could be a bit unsafe. I can see how a split time might work as the reports of the rounds could trigger the timer (though I’m not sure how the round reports of the person right next to me wouldn’t interfere).

I’m debating adding this dimension (timer) to my practice, I just want to understand the pros and cons. Thanks.

 

[HansGruber]

I’m not one to engage in caliber wars (personally, I think one should be able to proficiently shoot them all). But I do have a question as I’ve never used a timer before. How exactly do they work. Do I have to push the go button, then draw and shoot? I can’t see how else it would time my draw to first shot, and pushing that button then rushing to draw seems it could be a bit unsafe. I can see how a split time might work as the reports of the rounds could trigger the timer (though I’m not sure how the round reports of the person right next to me wouldn’t interfere).

I’m debating adding this dimension (timer) to my practice, I just want to understand the pros and cons. Thanks.

You push the button, and then there’s a brief delay (usually 3-5 seconds); the timer emits a loud beep, and you draw.

The sound of the shot will be registered, and the time displayed (multiple shot strings will show the time hit each shot, as well as the time between shots—aka “split”).

They are a useful tool.

 

[Lab4Us]

You push the button, and then there’s a brief delay (usually 3-5 seconds); the timer emits a loud beep, and you draw.

The sound of the shot will be registered, and the time displayed (multiple shot strings will show the time hit each shot, as well as the time between shots—aka “split”).

They are a useful tool.

How about folks shooting next lane over? Will their shots interfere if a busy range day?

 

[HansGruber]

How about folks shooting next lane over? Will their shots interfere if a busy range day?

Usually, yes. On a busy indoor range…they won’t work at all.

They are best used when you are the only one shooting, or if nobody is shooting right next to you.

 

[HayesGreener]

You can't overcome the laws of physics.

 

[Anchorite]

Not a really fan of Ayoob, but to me to compare the 9mm to .45 is mundane, I remember years ago the cartridge of competition shooters was the .38super mostly. If I still shot bowling pins like I did many moons ago, I’ll still use the .45. So to me it comes down to what your comfortable with, just my thoughts

Amen, Brother.

 

[Pitdogg2]

Well shucks, I guess us 10mm guys are out in the cold

 

[Anchorite]

Well shucks, I guess us 10mm guys are out in the cold

Loser….10 is still smaller than 45!!!

 

[Grayfox]

A 9mm might expand, but a .45 won't shrink.

 

[Pitdogg2]

A 9mm might expand, but a .45 won't shrink.

Truth!