4-6”, not even close to acceptable. I’m willing to try a different grain but honestly 55 gr is the bulk of what’s out there and this rifle should handle it no problem. JMO.
Can't Get My New Saint to Group Worth a Darn
- Thread starter neanders2
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- saint saint victor
If the goal is small groups, you really need to give the barrel a chance with heavier bullets. For fun fast shooting 4-6 inches will be ok. But remember the AR platform is not a precision rifle unless it is built up to be that. Even something like a bolt action 1moa is a good standard for a production gun, but even then there is always a disclaimer that that guarantee is with match grade ammo. Now can some guns shoot better than that with bulk ammo? Sure but that’s not the standard. Think about it this way, you bought a corvette stingray but you are giving it 87octaine. It will run with it, but will run better with that high test stuff If your goal is performance. Same with your rifle get a heavier weight and you will tighten the groups, get some match grade ammo and you will tighten up some more. Match grade ammo is built with performance in Mind.
www.nrablog.com
How To Pick the Right Round For Your AR-15 Barrel
Among the plethora of numbers found in AR-15 spec sheets is a figure called “twist rate,” denoted typically by a pair of numbers in a ratio, such as 1:7. Twist rate is the ratio of inches of bullet travel down the barrel needed to rotate the projectile one full turn. In this case, the bullet...
HansGruber
Ronin
I'm not saying change weights.
I am saying change brands/manufacture of the ammunition. There could be an issue with that particular lot that's causing the issue.
^ That's valuable info.
4" is typical at 100 yards, and I would say that 6-inches is not at all uncommon when it's fodder-grade ammo. The rack-grade AR is not an exceptional shooter: it's not to say that it can't be (considerably) better, but the baseline is truly about that.
To expect better will almost always require as @HansGruber noted - that you experiment with different makes of ammo, and also as others suggested, to vary the weight/length of the bullet. This then becomes a two-headed troubleshooting task, so a log-book will definitely be a good thing to keep up with.
Your Strikefire II is also a 4 MOA dot...that's not helping at that distance, either...... I know you're benchmarking versus your other Springfield AR - and that's a good thing to do, in my view of the situation - but it's quite likely that your other gun is simply "liking" the comparative ammo better, based on a unique-gun issue.
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I did try numerous brands of Ammo. 223 seems to run the best so far as opposed to 5.56. Next trip I will use a sled.
Thought I'd mention that I've taken my Saint back to the range a few more times since I last posted. The past two trips it seemed to group well. I tried a few different ammo types, almost all 55 gr, .223 and 5.56. Honestly I have no idea, can't explain it.
I think in an earlier comment somebody suggested I needed to put more rounds through it and break it in. That could be, but to be honest, I don't understand it. I've never had to break a gun in before, especially an auto loader (handgun or AR). So at this point I don't know what the issue was but I'm happy to report that things seem to have settled down.
I did swap out the handguard, got rid of the B5 and replaced it with Magpul MOE. The B5 wasn't bad, but the gas tube basically sat just barely underneath, and it got hot really fast. The Magpul handguard eliminated that problem. Anyway, just felt the need to provide an update. I feel it's important not only to report problems, but also to report when things go well. Here's hoping it stays that way.
I think in an earlier comment somebody suggested I needed to put more rounds through it and break it in. That could be, but to be honest, I don't understand it. I've never had to break a gun in before, especially an auto loader (handgun or AR). So at this point I don't know what the issue was but I'm happy to report that things seem to have settled down.
I did swap out the handguard, got rid of the B5 and replaced it with Magpul MOE. The B5 wasn't bad, but the gas tube basically sat just barely underneath, and it got hot really fast. The Magpul handguard eliminated that problem. Anyway, just felt the need to provide an update. I feel it's important not only to report problems, but also to report when things go well. Here's hoping it stays that way.
Going to an outdoor range and getting 2-3 hours (or more) away from the family on a weekend, well, that can be tough to swing. The indoor range closest to me, that I go to most often, only goes to 25 yards. That's where most of this shooting was done. The first few trips the groups were 4" and larger at 10 - 25 yards. Today, groups were an inch or less, thereabouts, even with my short (7.5" or so) AR pistol. Honeslty with any sort of rifle or AR pistol, at 25 yards and closer, I expect my groups to be an inch or less, I would guess most of you are the same. I will get it out to 100 yards and longer now that cooler weather is here and it'll be safer to shoot up in the woods (fire danger), but with just a red dot and eyesight that doesn't seem to be getting better, I'm not sure what to expect at long distance. It'll be fun though.
Bassbob
Emissary
Shooting from a rest at any relatively short distance you can see clearly, including 100 yards if your eyes and optic are good enough, I'd say 4-6 inch groups indicate some sort of problem somewhere.
This is a cheap, off the shelf BCA 10.5" upper attached to a PSA lower I built with mil spec parts, no brace, shooting off hand at 100 yards. Pistol was zero'ed at 50 yards with a Romeo 5. I put stickers over all the old holes so the group you're looking for is the obvious one at around 11 O:Clock.
This is a cheap, off the shelf BCA 10.5" upper attached to a PSA lower I built with mil spec parts, no brace, shooting off hand at 100 yards. Pistol was zero'ed at 50 yards with a Romeo 5. I put stickers over all the old holes so the group you're looking for is the obvious one at around 11 O:Clock.
I absolutely agree!If you can find a consistent point-of-reference (for your dot size or reticle) at the 100, I think you'd be surprised at how well you'll do.
But yes, at the 25, with a "long gun" that offers me at least 4 points of contact -if not also is being stabilized by a rest or something to rest it on- I'd want my shots to be touching, particularly if I'm working the zero.
The problem is that any slight deviations that manifest up-close will become that much bigger as the "cone" grows into the distance.
I find that the standards that Larry Vickers set forth as being both reasonable as well as achievable - if only that it did take me a bit of work to get there.
----> https://www.vickerstactical.com/accuracy.htmlRifleMaster
Alpha
OK mine is a saint victor 308. I did not think this was accurate enough and put it down to the trigger partially but to the barrel being too short really for a 308. I mean we choose a 308/7.62 to reach out correct?
I decided to go for another barrel and ordered a Faxon fluted 5R 20" barrel from Optics Planet. I have not tested it yet but the old barrel is off the receiver and it is a loose fit! I can rattle the barrel in the receiver (I can tell you how to get the barrel nut off with a pipe wrench and not damage the barrel nut!).
The new faxon barrel is way different. It will not just slide in. I have to heat the receiver a little with my gas torch and then it slides in neatly. Likewise to remove it a little heat to expand the aluminum receiver is required. That is how it should be. I am really shocked. The diameter of the Springfield barrel is 30.16mm and the faxon is 30.32mm.
A sloppy fittiing barrel is definitely going to put accuracy out!
RifleMaster
Alpha
My new barrel is in just waiting for the gas block to arrive tomorrow. I bought an adjustable which is claimed to have 15 positions. My service rifle was a FNFAL and that had an adjustable gas block which had 6 position if I remember which you could adjust in action. None of this having to push a rod down the hand guard to adjust it. Due to the tight fit of this barrel and its high quality finish. I let you know when I can get to the range in a few days. The picture of the 2 side by side the quality difference is obvious. The other picture shows what I did to get theBarrel Nut off. I had to use heat but I also needed a 14" pipe wrench. I bought a pack of 8-32 screws and used them to avoid damage. It worked great but I still had to whack the pipe wrench with a large rubber hammer twice!
Putting the new barrel in I put a little TW25B grease on, heated the receiver and it just slide right in. What I call an interference fit. I put anti seize on the threads. I was able to tighten the nut with an armourers wrench but no way of torqueing it. However with a range from 40-60ftlbs I reckon I am somewhere in that range.
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RifleMaster
Alpha
See my other post. I found that my barrel was a loose fit in the receiver. once the nut was off I could rattle it. My replacement barrel is way better finished and I had to heat the receiver to fit the new barrel 0.16mm difference. ON AR15 accuracy I have a Ruger AR556 18" barrel, rifle length gas, Barrel if 5R rifling. Fitted Vortex 1-8FFP scope. Shooting off my bag I get 3 round group almost touching - 1"?