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“Displaying” a firearm

Great thread……. Definitely enforces and encourages all to know the laws in their respective states.
Kentucky is a constitutional/open carry state with common sense brandishing laws and I’ve spoken to many law enforcement officers and many have told me that when carrying concealed and you raise your cover to show your gun in a (non confrontational situation)
Will “with most officers” not get you in trouble as long as the gun stays holstered. That being said if you
un-holster your gun even to show a very good friend and are seen and reported you will most likely be charged with a misdemeanor brandishing charge.
I have to add that I was frankly told that most charges will come from younger officers in contrast to older more seasoned officers who will be more understanding of the circumstances.
 
BreakingWind said:
Same thing in my state. Went to a seminar by US Law Shield and this topic came up. They used the example of a big guy and small guy arguing in parking lot. It escalates to the point where the larger guy starts coming towards the small guy threatening to whoop his butt. Smaller guy is carrying and just lifts his shirt to show the larger guy he is carry as a deterent and it stops the agressor. The big guy calls the cops and the small guy is arrested for brandishing...
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If the big guy isn't armed use of deadly force is most likely not justified.
 
Keystone19250 said:
Great thread……. Definitely enforces and encourages all to know the laws in their respective states.
Kentucky is a constitutional/open carry state with common sense brandishing laws and I’ve spoken to many law enforcement officers and many have told me that when carrying concealed and you raise your cover to show your gun in a (non confrontational situation)
Will “with most officers” not get you in trouble as long as the gun stays holstered. That being said if you
un-holster your gun even to show a very good friend and are seen and reported you will most likely be charged with a misdemeanor brandishing charge.
I have to add that I was frankly told that most charges will come from younger officers in contrast to older more seasoned officers who will be more understanding of the circumstances.
Click to expand...

I have never heard of anyone being arrested for brandishing in Missouri. If you pull your gun out in a threatening manner without justification you will be charged with attempted use of a deadly weapon which is a misdemeanor punishable by up to 12 months in jail. Showing your gun or unholstering your gun in a non threatening manner is not illegal. To me that is common sense brandishing law. We are open/concealed carry, constitutional carry.
 
I don't open carry. The only defensive use of a handgun in my family involved my DIL who displayed her firearm to two thugs attempint to jimmy the window in her apartment. No shots fired.

That said, some criminals are not deterred by the mere presence of firearm. Watch videos of police officers with drawn guns confronting miscreants who are not intimidated until the shots break.
 
ECS686 said:
There can be a bunch of directions a scenario can take that could justify or not justify so I am suggesting a BASIC scenario. IF it’s a situation where you are legal to use force and are not the initial aggressor showing or pointing in most states should fall into a Reasonable Amount of force.

Why if you carry a firearm you should really carry OC as well. There’s a lot more situations where OC would be needed and justified/easier to explain than a firearm.

But on firearms. Why a lot of places are teaching low ready so you you can truthfully say (and most video footage should show) why no Officer/your Honor I did not point the gun at him I used reasonable deterrence to stop his aggressive actions on my person” or however you want (just don’t say that vague BS “ I was in fear of my life”)
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I think it can NOT be overstated that concealed handgun carriers need to spend as much time on de-escalation and basic self-defense techniques as they do at the gun range or training with their firearm.

Many times awareness, having an escape route, shutting the heck up, etc., keeps situations from escalating to where a firearm might be needed.

I respect that some people are not interested in martial arts training like I have been most of my life. But understanding range(distance between you and the aggressor) and how to try to control distance are useful skills.

It's one thing when you're a law enforcement officer or security officer and your job is to keep the peace but some civilians totally over-estimate their ability to deal with angry people and under-estimate the skills of an aggressor.

In my bouncer days I did my best to avoid having to go hands on with people who had anger, alcohol, drug, or mental health issues. As a retired civilian most potentially violent situations can be avoided with a little planning on where I shop, when I shop, and who's around when I shop.

I always felt bad for people who had to ride mass transportation in cities where gangs rode some of the routes looking for easy victims. I'm sure some of those people could teach a good class on avoidance, de-escalation, and basic survival.

Many of us are extremely blessed to live in safer places and shop where there is little chance of confrontation. Yet some who live and shop in these places really think their concealed firearm will solve most violent situations.

Many of them have not witnessed what some of us have. Have not seen the rage and how things can come at you from different sides when you are not aware and over-estimate your abilities.

A firearm is a good tool but not always the best tool. People can get into unnecessary hassles when they think it's the only tool.

Be safe out there.
 
kenpomaniac1958 said:
I think it can NOT be overstated that concealed handgun carriers need to spend as much time on de-escalation and basic self-defense techniques as they do at the gun range or training with their firearm.

Many times awareness, having an escape route, shutting the heck up, etc., keeps situations from escalating to where a firearm might be needed.

I respect that some people are not interested in martial arts training like I have been most of my life. But understanding range(distance between you and the aggressor) and how to try to control distance are useful skills.

It's one thing when you're a law enforcement officer or security officer and your job is to keep the peace but some civilians totally over-estimate their ability to deal with angry people and under-estimate the skills of an aggressor.

In my bouncer days I did my best to avoid having to go hands on with people who had anger, alcohol, drug, or mental health issues. As a retired civilian most potentially violent situations can be avoided with a little planning on where I shop, when I shop, and who's around when I shop.

I always felt bad for people who had to ride mass transportation in cities where gangs rode some of the routes looking for easy victims. I'm sure some of those people could teach a good class on avoidance, de-escalation, and basic survival.

Many of us are extremely blessed to live in safer places and shop where there is little chance of confrontation. Yet some who live and shop in these places really think their concealed firearm will solve most violent situations.

Many of them have not witnessed what some of us have. Have not seen the rage and how things can come at you from different sides when you are not aware and over-estimate your abilities.

A firearm is a good tool but not always the best tool. People can get into unnecessary hassles when they think it's the only tool.

Be safe out there.
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I’m in the big burbs of N Texas. Violence comes to you regardless of area. Allen mall shooting was a well to do area and close by my home.
Bunch of thug underage teens beat a 7-11 worker for not selling them cigars last week. Gone are the days of “nice clean neighborhoods and good schools. The drug problem in my kids school and fights is constant and we are a 5 star school in a very very nice burb
 
KillerFord1977 said:
I’m in the big burbs of N Texas. Violence comes to you regardless of area. Allen mall shooting was a well to do area and close by my home.
Bunch of thug underage teens beat a 7-11 worker for not selling them cigars last week. Gone are the days of “nice clean neighborhoods and good schools. The drug problem in my kids school and fights is constant and we are a 5 star school in a very very nice burb
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Yep, It can happen anywhere, even in a quiet rural area, which is why I carry whenever I put on my pants. And why I seldom let Mrs Gray Hair, my loving nickname for her, mine is AH, I have yet to figure out what it means but at keast my hair is not gray, go shopping on her own.
 
Over the past few years, I have seen several videos of a group of (usually young) people attacking someone who is alone, beating, kicking them, etc. I recently saw one of a couple of Marines (of all things!) being jumped by a mob who didn’t like something one of the Marines said. I suspect if the Marines had killed several of the young thugs, the Marines would have been portrayed as the bad guys. Probably like one of us would be if jumped by a mob and shot a few of them. We are living in a strange time! Like Sid said, it can happen anywhere.
 
somorris said:
Over the past few years, I have seen several videos of a group of (usually young) people attacking someone who is alone, beating, kicking them, etc. I recently saw one of a couple of Marines (of all things!) being jumped by a mob who didn’t like something one of the Marines said. I suspect if the Marines had killed several of the young thugs, the Marines would have been portrayed as the bad guys. Probably like one of us would be if jumped by a mob and shot a few of them. We are living in a strange time! Like Sid said, it can happen anywhere.
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Wait, sounds like a Rittenhouse story 😏
 
Inusuit said:
I don't open carry. The only defensive use of a handgun in my family involved my DIL who displayed her firearm to two thugs attempint to jimmy the window in her apartment. No shots fired.

That said, some criminals are not deterred by the mere presence of firearm. Watch videos of police officers with drawn guns confronting miscreants who are not intimidated until the shots break.
Click to expand...
They are less afraid these days of being shot by cops than they are private citizens. Cops are too afraid to actually do their job anymore.
 
Keystone19250 said:
The attorney I have is a life long friend and lawyer for my family who told if I ever have to protect myself with my firearm to only say 5 words to law enforcement until he can get to me.

(I feared for my life)
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I too have a lawyer on retainer. He's an ex-prosecutor and now one of the top criminal defense attorneys in the area. He's a friend of my wife's whom she met through her dealings with the county and other legal matters I'm not going to get into.
 
Bassbob said:
I have never heard of anyone being arrested for brandishing in Missouri. If you pull your gun out in a threatening manner without justification you will be charged with attempted use of a deadly weapon which is a misdemeanor punishable by up to 12 months in jail. Showing your gun or unholstering your gun in a non threatening manner is not illegal. To me that is common sense brandishing law. We are open/concealed carry, constitutional carry.
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Exactly, I was just showing how asinine the law in some state (mine included) is. We went to Constitutional Carry that is effective 1 September. When they rewrite the rules to go with the Constitutional Carry, perhaps there will be some common sense in them.
 
BreakingWind said:
Why would you go to police first you have no reason to all the law. The other guy was being an ahole, last I knew there was no law against that.
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When I made the post you quoted. I was merely answering the persons situation that he mentioned that did escalate. And the non aggressor called the police first. Mas Ayoob has touched on that several times. If you have to have an argument and the gun is shown even in a holster ready ie stays in the holster but!!!!
You might want to report the confrontation.

I’m just glad my state doesn’t have a brandishing law it’s a pointing a loaded or unloaded firearm where you have to aim or muzzle sweep them. You can have it at a low ready at 45 degrees and you are GTG
 
Fair warning, I'm about to write a book.

Section 18-3-206 of the Colorado Revised Statutes (C.R.S.) provides:

(1) A person commits the crime of menacing if, by any threat or physical action, he or she knowingly places or attempts to place another person in fear of imminent serious bodily injury. Menacing is a class 3 misdemeanor, but, it is a class 5 felony if committed:

(a) By the use of a deadly weapon or any article used or fashioned in a manner to cause a person to reasonably believe that the article is a deadly weapon; or
(b) By the person representing verbally or otherwise that he or she is armed with a deadly weapon.
There was an incident here in Colorado several years ago in which a Private Investigator was attempting to collect a debt from a business owner.

At some point during their interaction according to the business owner the PI patted his suit jacket over his gun. He never displayed the gun and never said anything about a gun.

He was arrested for aggravated menacing and spent a year fighting it in court before he was acquitted.

I actually got to speak to the guy after the trial and his acquittal cost him tens of thousands of dollars AND the loss of his PI license. He also gave up his CHP voluntarily.
tend to err very heavily on the side of caution because my home state, Colorado has (IMO) a very low threshold for menacing. You don't even have to have a gun on you, you just gave to indicate "verbally or otherwise" that you have one to be charged. I operate on the assumption that if I so much as touch my gun I'm going to have to justify my actions.
 
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