Do You Think the 1911 Is the Worst Gun for Cops?

[az4783054]

That's my recollection as well. Our department ROs were usually SWAT team members. At the time I thought some of what they said was so obvious, "Make every round count", "Spray and pray is what the bad guys do", "Bring your own spares next time", "Learn fire control".

Glad we both made it 'cause some ill thought ideas are still out there...

 

[USMC6094]

The author of this article obviously has NO idea how often your run of mill LEO actually uses thier issued weapon.......

80 to 85 percent of law enforcement officers shoot twice a year......the practice session before qualifying, and the qualifying round........

Issue weapon is dependent on the agency, familiarity, and proficiency is dependent on the officer.

The PD I used to work for disqualified the 1911 because it was single action, but they allowed us to carry SKKY, and Keltecs for backup pieces...

The logic still escapes me.....

 

[az4783054]

To many lousy officers use the Peter Principle to promote so they can make decisions that defy logic. We called them lounge lizards.

 

[Shibadog]

The problem is not the 1911-the problem is police officers to lazy/dumbor disinterested to learn how to shoot. These folks then get in a situation and the answer, instead of marksmanship, is to dump a mag or two (often without any decisive hits on target). I have a very strong suspicion that if all officers carried an old fashioned single stack .45 AND was required to shoot a VERY tough qual course at least twice (if not 4 times) a year you’d see a lot lee rounds fired and a much higher percentage of hits…

 

[CEW]

The department previously carried G17…

my comment above states uniformity makes sense

True, just reminded me how the dictates of one person can ruin the work of a committee, that reviewed many factors and changed course. Like you said, isn't efficient to change for the purpose of one opinion alone. Just because you can doesn't mean one should, I agree...

 

[CEW]

Hayes with all your LE field and LE management experience, can you recall an instance where one of your fellow LEOs needed another officers magazine in a shooting situation?

Well, there was one that was much worse...

The North Hollywood Shootout in 1997 is a prominent incident where officers ran out of ammunition and had to borrow guns and magazines from a local store to outgun heavily armed bank robbers. A gunfight that lasted 44 minutes in a rolling shoot-out and changed or shall I say started the end of the 870 for standard issue. With today's Trans rages fueled by psychotropic drugs of which many in society take, it makes sense to stay ahead of the curve. May only happen on the rare occasion, but uniformity has its points. The same logic should apply to long guns as well.

Hell, I try to carry the same ammo used by the local Gestapo in case I ever find myself being tried by 12, and damn sure not going to have my handloads in the home defense pistol. I can hear the question now as to why I was loaded with some strange handload created in my workshop, designed on the huge .45 casing that blew the bad guy into the time warping blackhole, caused by the sub-sonic concussion...

 

[CEW]

The problem is not the 1911-the problem is police officers to lazy/dumbor disinterested to learn how to shoot. These folks then get in a situation and the answer, instead of marksmanship, is to dump a mag or two (often without any decisive hits on target). I have a very strong suspicion that if all officers carried an old fashioned single stack .45 AND was required to shoot a VERY tough qual course at least twice (if not 4 times) a year you’d see a lot lee rounds fired and a much higher percentage of hits…

Yep annual requals are something to see and despite free range day ammo once a month, those that needed it the most weren't there, because they would want overtime...

I do remember Navy Boot Camp walking into the in-door range for 1911 introduction of field stripping and qualifications. The ceiling looked like a spaghetti strainer and was frightful...

That is when me and the 1911, met for the first time, on a table as I was taught how to get her stripped down to just her spring, slide and recoil rods... Wait a gun would be a male, strike that, not judging but I don't roll that way. Yeah happiness is a clean gun...

 

[Old_Me]

i don't believe it (the 1911) is the worst gun for cops to carry, just as it is now, the cops must be carrying like 40 pounds of gear these days as it is....there are other "lighter weight" 45's to carry, with MORE magazine capacities.

 

[3L120]

Well, there was one that was much worse...

The North Hollywood Shootout in 1997 is a prominent incident where officers ran out of ammunition and had to borrow guns and magazines from a local store to outgun heavily armed bank robbers. A gunfight that lasted 44 minutes in a rolling shoot-out and changed or shall I say started the end of the 870 for standard issue. With today's Trans rages fueled by psychotropic drugs of which many in society take, it makes sense to stay ahead of the curve. May only happen on the rare occasion, but uniformity has its points. The same logic should apply to long guns as well.

Hell, I try to carry the same ammo used by the local Gestapo in case I ever find myself being tried by 12, and damn sure not going to have my handloads in the home defense pistol. I can hear the question now as to why I was loaded with some strange handload created in my workshop, designed on the huge .45 casing that blew the bad guy into the time warping blackhole, caused by the sub-sonic concussion...

We carried Ithaca 37s, not Remingtons. I retired in 94.

 

[3L120]

Good question. No. I do know of cases where officers ran out of ammo. But, the idea that you would throw a speedloader or magazine to a fellow officer who went winchester in a firefight sounds reasonable but I am not aware of a case where it actually happened. We used to joke about it-if you shoot up all your ammo and didn't take out the bad guy why would I want to give you some of mine? The truth is with high cap magazines nowadays I don't think the idea gets much play. With that said, you can only have too much ammo if on fire or if swimming.

Remember the days when we went out into the streets with 6 in the Smith and 12 in dump pouches, yet thought we were ready for anything?

 

[CEW]

Remember the days when we went out into the streets with 6 in the Smith and 12 in dump pouches, yet thought we were ready for anything?

Yeah and had to qualify at 50 yards weak hand, but I did have new-fangled speed loaders and to be honest still turned good times. Last round in our four shot tube mags was a slug in a Deer Slayer model... Then there was the 6" barrel and slung swivel holsters for seating comfort. Clad with the "You in a heap of trouble there Boy" mirror sunglasses...

 

[CEW]

Well, there was a time when being covered in a gunfight with some bank robbers by an officer, with an empty gun. Got a little irritated when I found out. But he was injured and didn't realize he had emptied the revolver into the windshield of the bad guy's vehicle when they rammed his door with him halfway out. So, he gets a pass, he just didn't reload from his pouch as I removed one from the backseat... He had two guns, but having the drop and he decided not to play anymore, buying time for the other two to escape (temporary). Ah, a war story from the past being 25 and immortal (for a limited time). Well 3L120, how did we survive the six-shooter years? Oh you forgot the ankle snub being only 5 shot...