Do You Think the 1911 Is the Worst Gun for Cops?

[Recusant]

I believe they switched over to Staccato.

Oh, I wouldn't doubt it, but up until the mid 80s there weren't a lot of other large caliber choices in a semi-auto, so the 1911 Colt Government Model in .45 caliber ruled. Today you have lots more to pick from. That's probably why many of our forum members have multiple EDC guns on hand to pick from, but even golfers have than one golf club to hit with!

 

[dad]

Though definitely not an expert but do have some experience in its use in military and law enforcement. Have carried one for approximately 25 years before changing, in rotation, to a Glock 22 and a Sig 226, with no regrets. The 1911 is an excellent personal defense weapon if one can cope with the size and weight. For law enforcement use, too big, too heavy and too few rounds. Now a civilian in retirement, when out in public, I rotate between a Browning Hi-Power and a Glock 19 and don't feel the less unprotected. My current 1911's of two down from a high of eight, I only carry on my property and feel no need to carry one out in public with its physical discomforts.

I love my Browning Hi Power Practical. Not only do I love the two tone appearance it has long been regarded as one of the all time greats. But I smile every time I carry my Hellcat because it holds as many rounds as the first double stack.

 

[Annihilator]

I currently don’t own a 1911 and although I have purchased 3 my experience with the platform was that 1911’s are fantastic shooting guns that personally I never found that I had to adjust or change my shooting style to achieve great groupings. I’ll admit the ones I owned made me a better shooter.
My last 1911 was a Springfield Emissary 45ACP it functioned flawlessly and was a great looking handgun however it was just too darn heavy for me to carry and ended being a nightstand gun.
For LEO use the only downfall I could think of would be round capacity however I always say “you do you” and if it works then go for it.

While the weight of a 1911 is concerning to some, that’s why there are light weight versions available if you choose to carry a 1911 and weight is a concern. I have carried a Colt Combat Commander years ago, steel frame and slide, I did get me a light weight commander, made a big difference

 

[AUTOMAN]

While I have and shoot all types of handguns, my favorite is my 1911s. In my experience, you need to practice the draw getting a firm grip to off the grip safety and learn to automatically push down the thumb safety. It takes practice to do so without thinking. That and being proficient with take down and reassembling without having any extra parts left over.

 

[HayesGreener]

While the weight of a 1911 is concerning to some, that’s why there are light weight versions available if you choose to carry a 1911 and weight is a concern. I have carried a Colt Combat Commander years ago, steel frame and slide, I did get me a light weight commander, made a big difference

How does it work for whacking surly bartenders?

 

[Fireguy3]

Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled “Do You Think the 1911 Is the Worst Gun for Cops?” and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/is-the-1911-the-worst-gun-for-cops/.

No, I carried a 1911 "Loaded" my entire time!,I started with a Glock 21
45, but at qualifications I couldn't keep the assembly pins from working out of the frame every couple hundred rounds. I then went to the Springfirld "Loaded" 1911 and never looked back
The only time it ever jammed on me in a few thousand rounds was when the slide caught the cuff of my coat sleeve and pinched it in between the slide and frame!

I consintently outshot everybody on the range. We are talking everything from revolvers to the latest Glocks as we were elected peace officers as ND chose our own duty equipment and sidearms.

Regretfully, after leaving office I f er ll on hard times and had to sell it to pay bills. When I got another 1911? It was a Springfield but this time a Garrison St ainless. It is even better quality that that Imbel produced "Loaded" as far as fit and finish.

 

[CEW]

I know this will sound inflammatory, but we must address the elephant in the room...

Perhaps we disarm the majority of police until they undergo further education, training, and mental evaluations, as well as at least 2 semesters with constitutional scholars! That way rights and lives stop getting trampled on.

Dems first... LOL

 

[CEW]

The 1911A1 is too good of a combat pistol for “Cops.” It’s cost for a well made all forged model is three to four times that of a Glock. The capacity of a 1911A1 is half that of a Glock. Sight swaps require some skill and a smith. Cops don’t get the training budget or time to gain proficiency in a 1911A1 versus the simplicity of a Glock.

The well made 1911A1 is superior in nearly every aspect to a Glock. However, it’s not superior to the Glock for Cops.

I own a Springfield 1911A1 custom and it’s unquestionably the most reliable, accurate, and proficient pistol I use and prefer to use for duty use bar none.

The 1911 needs a revamp to be a better gun for cops. I might suggest:

- Aluminum or Hybrid Frame in 1 3/4 stack for 9mm machine checkered front strap.
- Slide needs optic cut, external extractor, and quick change sights.
- Magpul Mags: cheap polymer reliable.
- Single Guiderod with captive dual springs.
- Ambi controls, thumb safety delete option.
- Trigger physical drop block safety.
- Nitro Carb Coating on Steel Components

Lost me at 9mm...

 

[az4783054]

I spent 26+ years law enforcement, uniform and investigations. Two OIS of my own and studied/investigated others OIS. Early, I carried personal weapons including 1911s, and later carried mandatory issued weapons. I was more comfortable and more proficient with my own. Commonality of magazines is a weak excuse.

Allow an LEO to carry what the officer is comfortable with and routinely demonstrates proficiency with.

 

[Bear103]

A neighboring agency allows their officers assigned to SWAT to carry Staccatos. I think with enough training officers could transition to a double stack 1911 with an RDS and light. It would take them a while to get used to engaging/disengaging the thumb safety. I’d trade in my Glock for a double stack 1911 in a heartbeat.

 

[KillerFord1977]

I spent 26+ years law enforcement, uniform and investigations. Two OIS of my own and studied/investigated others OIS. Early, I carried personal weapons including 1911s, and later carried mandatory issued weapons. I was more comfortable and more proficient with my own. Commonality of magazines is a weak excuse.

Allow an LEO to carry what the officer is comfortable with and routinely demonstrates proficiency with.

Richardson, Tx police got stuck in an apartment with an active shooter barricaded with an ambush style situation at the end of a hallway facing the door. Dom violence call. Officers that made entry were fired upon, struck and took cover. Not able to retreat out the door exposed, they returned fire down a hallway. They ran out of ammo quick what was on their belt. All had personal firearms of different makes and no common mags.
SWAT finally arrived and used a shield to get officers out and neutralize the suspect.

There is a valid reason police use common firearms. As a long serving officer, you should know why. How about an officer get comfortable, competent and routinely demonstrate proficiency with a duty firearm as you so mention instead.

 

[Sharks79]

A neighboring agency allows their officers assigned to SWAT to carry Staccatos. I think with enough training officers could transition to a double stack 1911 with an RDS and light. It would take them a while to get used to engaging/disengaging the thumb safety. I’d trade in my Glock for a double stack 1911 in a heartbeat.

one of the departments in my county are issued Staccatos. Maybe Sheriff? Person at the range was complaining would have kept G17 and taken a pay bump

 

[Sharks79]

Richardson, Tx police got stuck in an apartment with an active shooter barricaded with an ambush style situation at the end of a hallway facing the door. Dom violence call. Officers that made entry were fired upon, struck and took cover. Not able to retreat out the door exposed, they returned fire down a hallway. They ran out of ammo quick what was on their belt. All had personal firearms of different makes and no common mags.
SWAT finally arrived and used a shield to get officers out and neutralize the suspect.

There is a valid reason police use common firearms. As a long serving officer, you should know why. How about an officer get comfortable, competent and routinely demonstrate proficiency with a duty firearm as you so mention instead.

Standardization just kinda makes sense/efficient

Personnel input definitely taken into account, but having people “run what ya got” just doesn’t sound very efficient

 

[CEW]

one of the departments in my county are issued Staccatos. Maybe Sheriff? Person at the range was complaining would have kept G17 and taken a pay bump

Had a new Sheriff (outsider)come in and complained about the issued HK USP in .45 were too heavy. Caught him in uniform one day with empty mags, as I questioned and asked if he was really that "tactically challenged..." It got worse as he decided everyone should carry what they want, propelling us 20 years backwards. He strapped on his Glock in 9mm (never looked to see if the extra mags were loaded). Then deputies started buying different weapons from different companies in different calibers, thus no similarity.

Then my prediction of 40 S&W sleeping in .45 acp chambers began, range incidents of being able to fire the 40 and thus disabling the weapon. A couple times some were found with the .40 ammo in the issued .45's during inspection. A general mess as years of continuity came to an end, there and other places. We used to allow any of those that couldn't handle the size of the USP in .45, to go to a 9mm within the same weapon system, for familiarity purposes Can't remember any that did to include the females. The Boss was not able to grasp anything tactical to include the teams, I just retired rather continuing to watch policies get scuttled as my challenges started risking my rank.

Different story, but the point is that systems and uniformity are there for a reason and one doesn't have to look far to see why. A unified force isn't a place for carry, "what I want" cowboy approach. Teams were allowed to stray with justified reason into more specialized weapons for their mission, even they have uniformity (usually to .45 acp)...

The 1911 lived on, just like the M-14 to well into the 21st Century is an example. But the infrastructure for their support was already in place and were secondary to issued for special purposes.

Rant complete and scars remembered, but happy ending as things are returning from which they came, under a new Boss... Around and round eh.

 

[HayesGreener]

There are sound reasons for continuity of weapons and equipment for training and liability purposes. Size of agency is a major factor. That said, the 1911 is an excellent choice for special teams that have the wherewithall for advanced training and need precision pistol skills that most LEO's will never attain. Glocks for example are dead nuts reliable and inexpensive for agencies to buy in quantity, but the ergonomics don't work for some folks. I have been shooting handguns for 60 years, but wouldn't want to try a head shot at 15 yards with a Glock, but am confident with a 1911. I point to the FBI's Springfield 1911 Professional in their HRT. One size does not fit all, and one platform does not fit all situations.

 

[Sharks79]

Had a new Sheriff (outsider)come in and complained about the issued HK USP in .45 were too heavy. Caught him in uniform one day with empty mags, as I questioned and asked if he was really that "tactically challenged..." It got worse as he decided everyone should carry what they want, propelling us 20 years backwards. He strapped on his Glock in 9mm (never looked to see if the extra mags were loaded). Then deputies started buying different weapons from different companies in different calibers, thus no similarity.

Then my prediction of 40 S&W sleeping in .45 acp chambers began, range incidents of being able to fire the 40 and thus disabling the weapon. A couple times some were found with the .40 ammo in the issued .45's during inspection. A general mess as years of continuity came to an end, there and other places. We used to allow any of those that couldn't handle the size of the USP in .45, to go to a 9mm within the same weapon system, for familiarity purposes Can't remember any that did to include the females. The Boss was not able to grasp anything tactical to include the teams, I just retired rather continuing to watch policies get scuttled as my challenges started risking my rank.

Different story, but the point is that systems and uniformity are there for a reason and one doesn't have to look far to see why. A unified force isn't a place for carry, "what I want" cowboy approach. Teams were allowed to stray with justified reason into more specialized weapons for their mission, even they have uniformity (usually to .45 acp)...

The 1911 lived on, just like the M-14 to well into the 21st Century is an example. But the infrastructure for their support was already in place and were secondary to issued for special purposes.

Rant complete and scars remembered, but happy ending as things are returning from which they came, under a new Boss... Around and round eh.

The department previously carried G17…

my comment above states uniformity makes sense

 

[az4783054]

Hayes with all your LE field and LE management experience, can you recall an instance where one of your fellow LEOs needed another officers magazine in a shooting situation?

 

[HayesGreener]

Hayes with all your LE field and LE management experience, can you recall an instance where one of your fellow LEOs needed another officers magazine in a shooting situation?

Good question. No. I do know of cases where officers ran out of ammo. But, the idea that you would throw a speedloader or magazine to a fellow officer who went winchester in a firefight sounds reasonable but I am not aware of a case where it actually happened. We used to joke about it-if you shoot up all your ammo and didn't take out the bad guy why would I want to give you some of mine? The truth is with high cap magazines nowadays I don't think the idea gets much play. With that said, you can only have too much ammo if on fire or if swimming.

 

[KillerFord1977]

Hayes with all your LE field and LE management experience, can you recall an instance where one of your fellow LEOs needed another officers magazine in a shooting situation?

Police Officer David Charles Sherrard

Police Officer David Sherrard was shot and killed while responding to a disturbance at an apartment complex at 4250 East Renner Road.

www.odmp.org

A friend of mine was a responding officer to the scene. None of them had mags to give the officers trapped in with Officer Sherrard

 

[rcurtner]

No, I carried a 1911 "Loaded" my entire time!,I started with a Glock 21
45, but at qualifications I couldn't keep the assembly pins from working out of the frame every couple hundred rounds. I then went to the Springfirld "Loaded" 1911 and never looked back
The only time it ever jammed on me in a few thousand rounds was when the slide caught the cuff of my coat sleeve and pinched it in between the slide and frame!

I consintently outshot everybody on the range. We are talking everything from revolvers to the latest Glocks as we were elected peace officers as ND chose our own duty equipment and sidearms.

Regretfully, after leaving office I f er ll on hard times and had to sell it to pay bills. When I got another 1911? It was a Springfield but this time a Garrison St ainless. It is even better quality that that Imbel produced "Loaded" as far as fit and finish.

Welcome to the forum from South Texas. Share you thoughts on 1911's