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Ghost Guns

jumpinjoe said:
Hard to believe for some maybe, but 'home made' or 'home built' firearms have been legal to make and own since the country was founded. They have never been required to have a serial # or an identifying mark of any kind as long as they are owned and kept by the original builder. And as long as the builder keeps them in his possession there is no serial # required.

The ATF also states that as long as a forearm was built with the original intent of the builder to keep it for himself, but later changes his mind and decides to sell it, is legal. However he should be especially careful in the transaction to be able to prove his original intent was to keep it, and to obtain an identifying mark or serial # for it before the transaction.

However, I'm pretty sure that in any event that firearm transfers between owners, it is required to obtain a serial # from the ATF which is to be permanently applied to the firearm.

The preceding is based on federal law ...... be aware there are individual state statutes that may/may not enforce/contradict this.
Click to expand...
They want to change the law and require the lowers to be serial #'d. One recommendation went so far as to recommend that lowers be handled just like handguns.
 
jumpinjoe said:
Hard to believe for some maybe, but 'home made' or 'home built' firearms have been legal to make and own since the country was founded. They have never been required to have a serial # or an identifying mark of any kind as long as they are owned and kept by the original builder. And as long as the builder keeps them in his possession there is no serial # required.

The ATF also states that as long as a forearm was built with the original intent of the builder to keep it for himself, but later changes his mind and decides to sell it, is legal. However he should be especially careful in the transaction to be able to prove his original intent was to keep it, and to obtain an identifying mark or serial # for it before the transaction.

However, I'm pretty sure that in any event that firearm transfers between owners, it is required to obtain a serial # from the ATF which is to be permanently applied to the firearm.

The preceding is based on federal law ...... be aware there are individual state statutes that may/may not enforce/contradict this.
Click to expand...
The technology to build firearms by any (responsible) Patriot without identifying marks should be just fine. Soon enough, the BATF, IRS, and other agencies will find a way to tax/register/ban/confiscate those too.
 
OK, now ya'll got me interested:

Is this process only available on the AR platform?
What other firearms can be (legally) built?
I have no idea what the 3D process is.
Costly?
Mass production possible?
Is the lower exempt because it is not complete (80%)?
What type of machines are required for completion?

Disclaimer: The above is for information/knowledge only.
No intent to produce. ;)
 
C. Sumpin said:
OK, now ya'll got me interested:

Is this process only available on the AR platform?
What other firearms can be (legally) built?
I have no idea what the 3D process is.
Costly?
Mass production possible?
Is the lower exempt because it is not complete (80%)?
What type of machines are required for completion?

Disclaimer: The above is for information/knowledge only.
No intent to produce. ;)
Click to expand...
There are 80% handgun kits too. Mostly Glock clones. And that I believe is the one that put them on the Biden ATF's radar. Mostly these are sold in complete kits which include everything you need, minus the skill, to build the firearm.
 
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C. Sumpin said:
OK, now ya'll got me interested:

Is this process only available on the AR platform?
What other firearms can be (legally) built?
I have no idea what the 3D process is.
Costly?
Mass production possible?
Is the lower exempt because it is not complete (80%)?
What type of machines are required for completion?

Disclaimer: The above is for information/knowledge only.
No intent to produce. ;)
Click to expand...
I am not a gunsmith nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last nite. My son's friend told me.
You can homebuild any firearm that you can get parts for. With the AR platform you can purchase a complete mix and match kits with all the parts necessary to build your own customized AR style firearm.
3D printed firearms is a Red Herring. 3D plasics at this time are not durable enough to use to print a whole gun, certain parts can't withstand the pressures and temperatures a firearm produces.
What do you mean by exempt? If you mean from a serial number than yes, the lowers are considered parts and is exempt under the current rules/laws.
A set of good quality hand tools is all that is required to homebuild a firearm.
Now if you are an engineer and have the ability, knowledge, and machinery required to make precision parts you can purchase the blueprints of many currently available firearms.
 
Until I retired I no real desire to home build my own firearms. I stayed busy enough cleaning and repairing my complete firearms. As an auto mechanic and trained machine operator I taught several people to bent, drill, heat treat and rivit AK flats. I understood that the work had to done by the people I was instructing and not by me. After retiring and being a little bored I decided to try an AR 80% build for myself. OH MY that was fun!! It worked so well I had to try it again, and again. Then I progressed to 80% "Glock" clones easy but to do correctly you need specialized equipment and 1911 (a little more complicated). These of course will never be sold!! Somebody stated that your basic gangbanger has neither the skill, the will or patience to complete an 80% firearm. Ive been associated with the military or law enforcement since high school and those are my observations.
3D printing at this point is not cost effective for the home builder and mass production would legally require a manfacter FFL.
Just my humble thoughts
 
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