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Is Low Quality Factory Ammo Dangerous?

Kodiak Cowboy

Kodiak Cowboy

Custom
I wanted to post a couple pictures of the two 10mm cases that got stuck in the chamber of my 1911 and a couple pictures of one of the ammo manufacturers. Both loads were hard cast 220gr. One from Buffalo Bore, the other from Grizzly.

Now it's totally clear that you can see the primers blew out of both cases. However, if you look closely at the rims of both cases you can clearly see where the extractor left a notch in it after cutting through the rim when the slide cycled back!
Kimber replaced my extractor when I sent it back for repairs. I'd bet even money that the extractor was damaged from the two stuck cases and that's why it was replaced by Kimber!👍
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Grizzly labels there product as "big bore" "high performance ammunition" that's "second to none" 😂😂😂 You gotta be kidding me! Now I realize all those statements are just marketing ploy's, but "big bore"! Come on now. There is no such thing as a "big bore" pistol. Not even the .500S&W or .50AE are "true" big bores. Now I don't know about any of ya'll, but when someone mentions "big bore" in terms of firearms. African Safari comes to my mind and cartridges like the .416 Rigby, 505 gibbs, 404 Jeffrey, 470 Nitro or .458 Lott just to name a few. Are what come to my mind! Now those are "big bore" cartridges!
Do any of you guys think this factory pistol ammo that I've mentioned above is unsafe, cheaply made, and poor quality? Is it loaded hot because it's so called "big bore" ammo made by company's named after big game and sometimes dangerous game? Further more, are these ammo companies trying to convince customers it is Intended for use on big and or dangerous game? Or is it just me? I've never experienced anything in my life as far as factory ammo is concerned like I did with the two manufacturers I just mentioned. Any info, advice, or opinions will be much appreciated!

Shoot fun, shoot safe, and shoot straight!
 
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Kodiak Cowboy said:
I wanted to post a couple pictures of the two 10mm cases that got stuck in the chamber of my 1911 and a couple pictures of one of the ammo manufacturers. Both loads were hard cast 220gr. One from Buffalo Bore, the other from Grizzly.

Now it's totally clear that you can see the primers blew out of both cases. However, if you look closely at the rims of both cases you can clearly see where the extractor left a notch in it after cutting through the rim when the slide cycled back!
Kimber replaced my extractor when I sent it back for repairs. I'd bet even money that the extractor was damaged from the two stuck cases and that's why it was replaced by Kimber!👍
View attachment 27556

View attachment 27557View attachment 27558View attachment 27559Grizzly labels there product as "big bore" "high performance ammunition" that's "second to none" 😂😂😂 You gotta be kidding me! Now I realize all those statements are just marketing ploy's, but "big bore"! Come on now. There is no such thing as a "big bore" pistol. Not even the .500S&W or .50AE are "true" big bores. Now I don't know about any of ya'll, but when someone mentions "big bore" in terms of firearms. African Safari comes to my mind and cartridges like the .416 Rigby, 505 gibbs, 404 Jeffrey, 470 Nitro or .458 Lott just to name a few. Are what come to my mind! Now those are "big bore" cartridges!
Now do any of you guys think this factory pistol ammo that I've mentioned above is unsafe and cheaply made and poor quality? Is it loaded hot because it's so called "big bore" ammo made by company's named after big game and sometimes dangerous game and trying to convince customers it is Intended for use on big and dangerous game? Or is it just me? I've never experienced anything in my life as far as factory ammo is concerned like I did with the to manufacturers I just mentioned. Any info, advice, or opinions will be much appreciated!

Shoot fun, shoot safe, and shoot straight!
Click to expand...
If it’s blowing out primers it’s too much for the gun. Pressure reaches its peak right when the tail end of the bullet enters the rifling. Your brass is essentially welded to the walls of your cylinder at that point because the pressure is too high for the extractor to pull it. There isn’t enough weight in the slide to prevent the primer from forcing it backwards at peak pressure. If I had to guess, they are likely over pressure of you’re lucky you haven’t had a kaboom yet.

Personally, I don’t see any reason to push a 10mm that hard. It’s meant to stop humans, not grizzlies. If you want to shoot high pressure hard cast, I’d recommend a revolver.

Big bore is referring to the diameter of the bore. Anything over .40 is considered a big bore by most (10mm is .40). 50AE and 500 S&W are bigger than anything you listed as “big bore” in your rifle cartridge list except the 505. I’ve seen 500 S&W sling a 440gr in excess of 4000ft lbs from a lever gun. I have 350gr handgun loads exceeding 3000 ft lbs. Quite frankly, it’s enough to kill any land animal on earth. At the hottest loads, I’ve never seen a 10mm break 800ft lbs. That’s like comparing a 22 to a 10mm.
 
As stated too much pressure for the firearm. Also as stated, they are loading the cartridge too hot to try to make it into something it was not designed for. It was not designed as a large dangerous animal cartridge. No matter what people are trying to make it out to be.

The 10mm was if my memory serves me created originally to be close to the 357 magnum in a semi auto, not the. 44 magnum in performance and how many people consider the .357 magnum to be a large bear handgun.

In my opinion the big thing the 10mm has going for it is capacity, speed of shots, and more than likely practice time. Most shooters will be likely to spend tine shooting the softer shooting 10mm than a more punishing 44 magnum. But, shot for shot its not all that close.

Loved an Outdoor life article I read not all that long ago. The author chose to compare full bore 44 magnums using a Sw 329 Pd scandium compared to the .10mm. Not surprisingly he concluded that the 44 magnum was too punishing and selected the 10mm as a better option because people would practice with it. Talk about adding a bias to the comparison.

I have shot the 329 with heavy magnumsand no. Did not like it one bit. But I could shoot my. Redgaek with them all day long.
 
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Sld1959 said:
As stated too much pressure for the firearm. Also as stated, they are loading the cartridge too hot to try to make it into something it was not designed for. It was not designed as a large dangerous animal cartridge. No matter what people are trying to make it out to be.

The 10mm was if my memory serves me created originally to be close to the 357 magnum in a semi auto, not the. 44 magnum in performance and how many people consider the .357 magnum to be a large bear handgun.

In my opinion the big thing the 10mm has going for it is capacity, speed of shots, and more than likely practice time. Most shooters will be likely to spend tine shooting the softer shooting 10mm than a more punishing 44 magnum. But, shot for shot its not all that close.

Loved an Outdoor life article I read not all that long ago. The author chose to compare full bore 44 magnums using a Sw 329 Pd scandium compared to the .10mm. Not surprisingly he concluded that the 44 magnum was too punishing and selected the 10mm as a better option because people would practice with it. Talk about adding a bias to the comparison.

I have shot the 329 with heavy magnumsand no. Did not like it one bit. But I could shoot my. Redgaek with them all day long.
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I could shoot my Redhawk with them all day long.
 
I consider .40 and up big bore "pistol" cartridges. Big bore rifles can be debated as to what constitutes big bore. I'm not a rifle cartridge guy, so 30.06 or .308 seem plenty big for big game in this country. If you enjoy your .375 magnum, .458 or whatever, you pursue your interests and I support you.
I shoot standard loads and personally have no interest in +P, +P+ or heavy for caliber rounds. Many do, I don't. I go the other direction, often shooting a lighter bullet, like a 180-200 gr. bullet in .45 acp or a 125 gr bullet in .38 special. I find these enjoyable to shoot. Defensive rounds can be another discussion, there are a lot to choose from from all spectrums. A well known writer often tells of needing to shoot lighter rounds due to long term damage to joints and age. Then he proceeds to describe heavy loads of one persuasion or another on his latest gun test. You know the joke about the doctor? A patient says, it hurts when I do this. The doctor says, don't do that.
I would suggest if a standard load doesn't have enough oomph, then move up the scale to find a caliber that does what you want within the standard parameters. That's just me. I want to ensure continued reliability with my purchase and do not want to take a chance with it getting loose or wearing out prematurely. If you want 800 hp in your daily driver, go for it. While I might enjoy driving the beast for a time, I want my vehicle to last 200K miles or more without a rebuild.
 
Kodiak Cowboy said:
I wanted to post a couple pictures of the two 10mm cases that got stuck in the chamber of my 1911 and a couple pictures of one of the ammo manufacturers. Both loads were hard cast 220gr. One from Buffalo Bore, the other from Grizzly.

Now it's totally clear that you can see the primers blew out of both cases. However, if you look closely at the rims of both cases you can clearly see where the extractor left a notch in it after cutting through the rim when the slide cycled back!
Kimber replaced my extractor when I sent it back for repairs. I'd bet even money that the extractor was damaged from the two stuck cases and that's why it was replaced by Kimber!👍
View attachment 27556

View attachment 27557View attachment 27558View attachment 27559Grizzly labels there product as "big bore" "high performance ammunition" that's "second to none" 😂😂😂 You gotta be kidding me! Now I realize all those statements are just marketing ploy's, but "big bore"! Come on now. There is no such thing as a "big bore" pistol. Not even the .500S&W or .50AE are "true" big bores. Now I don't know about any of ya'll, but when someone mentions "big bore" in terms of firearms. African Safari comes to my mind and cartridges like the .416 Rigby, 505 gibbs, 404 Jeffrey, 470 Nitro or .458 Lott just to name a few. Are what come to my mind! Now those are "big bore" cartridges!
Do any of you guys think this factory pistol ammo that I've mentioned above is unsafe, cheaply made, and poor quality? Is it loaded hot because it's so called "big bore" ammo made by company's named after big game and sometimes dangerous game? Further more, are these ammo companies trying to convince customers it is Intended for use on big and or dangerous game? Or is it just me? I've never experienced anything in my life as far as factory ammo is concerned like I did with the two manufacturers I just mentioned. Any info, advice, or opinions will be much appreciated!

Shoot fun, shoot safe, and shoot straight!
Click to expand...
There are obviously over pressure from your description .
 
Philmo11 said:
If it’s blowing out primers it’s too much for the gun. Pressure reaches its peak right when the tail end of the bullet enters the rifling. Your brass is essentially welded to the walls of your cylinder at that point because the pressure is too high for the extractor to pull it. There isn’t enough weight in the slide to prevent the primer from forcing it backwards at peak pressure. If I had to guess, they are likely over pressure of you’re lucky you haven’t had a kaboom yet.

Personally, I don’t see any reason to push a 10mm that hard. It’s meant to stop humans, not grizzlies. If you want to shoot high pressure hard cast, I’d recommend a revolver.

Big bore is referring to the diameter of the bore. Anything over .40 is considered a big bore by most (10mm is .40). 50AE and 500 S&W are bigger than anything you listed as “big bore” in your rifle cartridge list except the 505. I’ve seen 500 S&W sling a 440gr in excess of 4000ft lbs from a lever gun. I have 350gr handgun loads exceeding 3000 ft lbs. Quite frankly, it’s enough to kill any land animal on earth. At the hottest loads, I’ve never seen a 10mm break 800ft lbs. That’s like comparing a 22 to a 10mm.
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I'm not here to start an argument and I agree with everything you've said except on "Big Bore." In my opinion and from what I've read and heard. There is no such thing as a "big bore" pistol. If you went to Africa and told the PH you brought your 10mm, .44 mag, or even 500S&W "big bore'" for back up on your Cape Buffalo hunt. He'd laugh at you and say "keep that pea shooter in it's holster! That's why I'm here with my .450 Nitro double gun!" I'd really like to see the data that supports the .500 S&W delivering 4000 ftps of ME from a LG. Don't get me wrong. I'm not calling you a lier! However from what I know as long as I've been studying ballistics. I'd Have to see that data in a reloading manual to believe it. 👍 I have a "true" big bore in .416 that delivers over 5000 ftps in certain hand loads and right around 5000 in factory ammo. Now, look in a reloading manual and compare powder charges between any of the .416's and the S&W .500. If I'm wrong? Than I will definitely stand corrected!
I know exactly in my opinion what cartridges are and are not suitable for big and or dangerous game. In my opinion. The 10mm is not at all close to suitable! I bought the ammo simply because it was the only 10mm ammo I could find at the time. Certainty not as "big bore" ammo intended for big game. 😂 Calling it a big bore just makes me laugh! The 10mm dosent even hold 10grn. of power in a hot hand load! 😂😂 Now I have two and a half boxes of pure crap that can be purchased across the counter and is dangerous to fire in either model of my 10mm pistols, and quite possibly more!

I was more curious as to if you guys had the same opinion as I did as it being dangerous for factory ammo. A lot of you guys stated it was over pressured for the gun that the cases got stuck in. Witch also has a fully supported chamber. I mean come on now! Someone can accidentally get seriously injured by this stuff, and it's sold across the counter!!!

Thank you everyone that replied to this post. Much appreciated! 👍
 
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Love to comment with an opinion, but my 10mm either is fed range ammo (Magtech or S&B), or standard JHP for both range practice and home defense readiness. No wild game in my part of WI that I worry about...

The "hottest" cartridge I buy is Federal HST for my EDC in 9mm, which as far as I've heard is not marketed as "hot".
 
KC,

I don't remember if you've said that you have a G20, but if so, did you have the same sticking cases in it? Glocks have a generous chamber & if you don't have the same issue in a G20 I wouldn't worry about running your ammo in it.

My .02
 
Talyn said:
KC,

I don't remember if you've said that you have a G20, but if so, did you have the same sticking cases in it? Glocks have a generous chamber & if you don't have the same issue in a G20 I wouldn't worry about running your ammo in it.

My .02
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Sever muzzle and breach flash and I felt contortion in the frame and grip of my G model 20 during discharge from the Buffalo Bore Ammo. However, no stuck cases.
 
Kodiak Cowboy said:
Sever muzzle and breach flash and I felt contortion in the frame and grip of my G model 20 during discharge from the Buffalo Bore Ammo. However, no stuck cases.
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Because of the "stout" BB load your G20 may be unlocking abit "prematurely" due to the factory recoil spring weight of 16-17 lbs. That spring weight is standard in all G20, 21, 21SF Pistols.

In order to keep it locked up better with the "hot" BB loads you might want to try a #20-22 lb. recoil spring, and ss guide rod if you still run the factory plastic one.

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My .02
 
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Sld1959 said:
As stated too much pressure for the firearm. Also as stated, they are loading the cartridge too hot to try to make it into something it was not designed for. It was not designed as a large dangerous animal cartridge. No matter what people are trying to make it out to be.

The 10mm was if my memory serves me created originally to be close to the 357 magnum in a semi auto, not the. 44 magnum in performance and how many people consider the .357 magnum to be a large bear handgun.

In my opinion the big thing the 10mm has going for it is capacity, speed of shots, and more than likely practice time. Most shooters will be likely to spend tine shooting the softer shooting 10mm than a more punishing 44 magnum. But, shot for shot its not all that close.

Loved an Outdoor life article I read not all that long ago. The author chose to compare full bore 44 magnums using a Sw 329 Pd scandium compared to the .10mm. Not surprisingly he concluded that the 44 magnum was too punishing and selected the 10mm as a better option because people would practice with it. Talk about adding a bias to the comparison.

I have shot the 329 with heavy magnumsand no. Did not like it one bit. But I could shoot my. Redgaek with them all day long.
Click to expand...
Agreed!👍
 
Talyn said:
Because of the "stout" BB load your G20 may be unlocking abit "prematurely" due to the factory recoil spring weight of 16-17 lbs. That spring weight is standard in all G20, 21, 21SF Pistols.

In order to keep it locked up better with the "hot" BB loads you might want to try a #20-21 lb. recoil spring, and a SS guide rod if you still run the factory plastic one.

My .02
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Solid info and advise! I will definitely consider and probably end up doing that eventually. Thankyou
 
BTW, I can't speak for Grizzly ammo but Buffalo Bore isn't low quality ammo.

Alot of 10mm is underpowered compared to the original loads and the factory 17 lb. spring in a G20 handles all that fine, but when you ramp up to heavy loads then you have to tune the recoil spring to the heavy loads.
 
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