testtest

Is the 1911 the Ideal Woods Gun?

If I know I'm heading into the woods? I'm okay with a 9mm but I would probably either take my .40 (G23) or, more likely either of my Taurus .357 mag revolvers. When hunting I take a 4" Tracker 627. For fishing or hiking it would be the 3" 605 Defender (this has replaced my 605 Protector, the poly model).
LoadTypical BarrelVelocity (fps)Energy (ft-lbs)Expansion (in)Penetration (in) bare/denimNotes
.40 S&W 165 gr Federal HST (Glock 23)4.0″1130–1140465–4750.74–0.7813.5–15.5
9mm +P 147 gr Winchester Ranger T (P-07)3.75″1020–1040370–3900.69–0.7414.5–17.5
.357 Mag 154 gr Federal HST (4″ revolver)4.0″1350–1400620–6500.70–0.7516–19
.357 Mag 135 gr Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel2″–2.5″950–1000270–3000.68–0.7412–14Designed to expand at lower velocity
While I know .45 would be fine. I would prefer one of my wheel guns.
 
Talyn said:
The performance need for griz is deep penetration, and with a hard cast bullet the 10mm out performs the .45acp.
Click to expand...
He stated the 10mm has deeper penetration but the .45+P penetrates deep enough to hit the vitals of the bear. He chose the diameter of the .45+P hole over the deeper penetration of the 10mm through nothing vital.
 
MrMichaelActual said:
I am not any kind of fanboy, but in this particular case I carry my Gen 5 G20 MOS with a Green dot Holosun... love that 10mm punch. While I prefer my Sig P320 X10, if I fall into mud and am covered in clay and it is raining during the apocalypse, that dang Glock will still fire. Heck, just wee on it to rinse it and go...
Click to expand...
I would be glad to help with rinsing your Glock if it falls in the mud...😁
 
well. most of the 1911s are range babies

in the woods the xd service 9 mm or 45
why you ask? because they have been dropped, swamped, muddied, etc and hide the wear well
my 1911s would bug me to no end if they got dropped :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
 
southtex said:
He stated the 10mm has deeper penetration but the .45+P penetrates deep enough to hit the vitals of the bear. He chose the diameter of the .45+P hole over the deeper penetration of the 10mm through nothing vital.
Click to expand...

What vitals? A side shot into the heart/lung area, or directly into the brain thru the skull in a frontal shot?

I see no language in this (the featured) article about the 10mm, nor the 45+P, penetrating deep enough.

Keep in mind a fatally wounded griz/brown bear will still kill someone if you don't shut down the CPU.

In his OP article it's the author's opinion is a standard velocity .45 FMJ is adequate for deep penetration. But in the "linked-to" Buffalo Bore states a couple of their loads are designed for deeper penetration, and there's nothing in the Buffalo Bore linked to page about the .45+p being better..

Since the author lives in Texas where there are no Griz, his opinion is pretty weak outside of the conditions that he's used to encounter in TX.
 
Last edited:
Talyn said:
What vitals? A side shot into the heart/lung area, or directly into the brain thru the skull in a frontal shot?

I see no language in his (the featured) article about the 10mm, nor the 45+P penetrating deep enough.

Keep in mind a fatally wounded griz/brown bear will still kill someone if you don't shut down the CPU.

In his OP article it's the author's opinion is a standard velocity .45 FMJ is adequate for deep penetration. But in the "linked-to" Buffalo Bore states a couple of their loads are designed for deeper penetration, and there's nothing in the Buffalo Bore linked to page about the .45+p being better..

Since the author lives in Texas where there are no Griz, his opinion is pretty weak outside of the conditions that he's used to encounter in TX.
Click to expand...
I'll just be in the truck....
 
Both the 10mm and the 45ACP are, in reality, marginal, against a charging bear, but the proper bullet, that is moving just fast enough, will penetrate, and perhaps expand if a JHP, otherwise a good SWC will punch a wide enough hole, to create blood loss and affect blood pressure.

I think BOTH are those choices that you use carefully, on close shots, when properly loaded and in the hands of a disciplined shooter who will refrain unless given the right presentation.

It’s all going to be reduced to a few precious heartbeats of time if you find yourself in an unfortunate encounter. You better be confident in what you’re carrying and how you are positioned for presentation when that moment comes.
 
Talyn said:
What vitals? A side shot into the heart/lung area, or directly into the brain thru the skull in a frontal shot?

I see no language in this (the featured) article about the 10mm, nor the 45+P, penetrating deep enough.

Keep in mind a fatally wounded griz/brown bear will still kill someone if you don't shut down the CPU.

In his OP article it's the author's opinion is a standard velocity .45 FMJ is adequate for deep penetration. But in the "linked-to" Buffalo Bore states a couple of their loads are designed for deeper penetration, and there's nothing in the Buffalo Bore linked to page about the .45+p being better..

Since the author lives in Texas where there are no Griz, his opinion is pretty weak outside of the conditions that he's used to encounter in TX.
Click to expand...
Idaho
 
Simply put -- to quote Dirty Harry -- a man's gotta know his limitations. A bear is not a bear. Huge diff between a 3-400 lb black bear and a 1,000 lb grizzly. Whether you're in the forest or the mountains or on the plains -- and where that might be -- will determine what you carry. A .45ACP using a bullet like the Lehigh Defense coppers used on Black Hills' Honey Badgers (or your reloads) are a great add-on to any "woods defense" handgun. For me, I'd not carry my .45; I'd have either a .357 or .44 mag with "boosted" ammo, but that's just me. If I was in Alaska, that would likely scale upwards.

IMHO, articles that start off with a broad premise aren't very helpful. Always interesting to read, but questionable value overll. You know what they say about opinions. LOL!
 
Lots of opinions here... so I will add mine. 😁

Here in Idaho, people run into bear all the time. There are, in these woods, some big big bears that can weigh up to 600lb.. In most encounters the bear continues on its way with no ado. However, every year there are several encounters that end in a bloody mess for one or the other. You can't be under gunned in the woods here. The best gun, best caliber is the one you can hit with, but that being said, bigger is better. The less punch the gun has the more important shot placement is. Hitting a running bear, head-on, is not as easy as one would think and they can cover 50 yards in a flash. A .45 with ball ammo will suffice if you are good under pressure, can hit your target... and the bear is under 300lb. Larger bear are most likely going to need more persuasion. Even a 44Mag is going to have a bit of trouble here. I'm approaching 70 and so don't find myself in the wood much these days, but when I was younger I packed a 44Mag with 240gr. flat point rounds. I believe that this is the minimum that can be counted on.
 
Last edited:
Talyn said:
The author of the OP article on page 1 lives in TX.

https://www.thearmorylife.com/m1911-pistol-is-woods-gun/.

Tim (Buffalo Bore) lives in Salmon, ID. I've met him, and use Buffalo Bore ammo since I live in MT with ID right up the road.
Click to expand...
My bad. I was not referencing the forum article but a discussion if you will put out by Tim on the comparison of the 2 rounds and his thoughts on choosing the .45 +P.
 
southtex said:
He stated the 10mm has deeper penetration but the .45+P penetrates deep enough to hit the vitals of the bear. He chose the diameter of the .45+P hole over the deeper penetration of the 10mm through nothing vital.
Click to expand...

Yea, that came out last Feb and was discussed here.


Sort of varies his previous article.


And in another article in his tech section there's the points I made earlier.

"Stopping" bears with handgun or rifle cartridges

"Stopping" bears with handgun or rifle cartridges
www.buffalobore.com www.buffalobore.com

Excerpt.

GRIZZLY BEARS

First, not all bears are the same. Grizzly bears have a much different mindset than the black bear species. To stop a grizzly attack, you will PROBABLY have to kill it, but sometimes all you have to do is to hurt it badly, and the bear will become dissuaded. So, when planning to stop grizzly attacks, it is best to use a cartridge that will kill it—the quicker, the better. Interior grizzlies normally get no bigger than 500 lbs, but in Montana, I’ve seen interior bears around 900 lbs., but this is very rare. Coastal grizzlies, sometimes known as Alaskan Brown Bears, often exceed 1000 lbs.

> If you are relying on shoulder or heart/lung shots to kill such a bear, it takes a lot of cartridges. One that will make a big hole that goes very deeply through bone and into internal organs. If you hit him fatally in the chest area, you will then have roughly 15 to 30 seconds to stay alive before the bear learns he is dead.

> If you are relying on brain shots, it is not all that hard to kill adult grizzly bears. Almost any center fire cartridge of 357 bore or larger with a very hard, non-expanding, flat-nosed bullet will pierce a bear's skull with direct /frontal (between the eyes) hits. From the side angle, shoot them right at the bottom of the ear canal. These two shots are instant death if you are using the correct ammo.

The old MYTH that bullets will slide off a bear’s skull is pure hogwash when using modern ammo featuring bullets that will not mushroom when fired from a powerful handgun. When using high-powered rifles, it is OK if the bullet mushrooms as the high velocity of the rifle bullet, will puncture the bear's skull regardless because of its high velocity. One hundred fifty years ago, when the early settlers were heading west, the muzzleloaders they used fired pure lead (very soft) round balls that would or could flatten out against bone and possibly slide off, leaving only a surface wound when hitting a bear's head. Unless you are using pure lead bullets that are rounded, this situation is no longer a concern.
 
Last edited:
Talyn said:
Yea, that came out last Feb and was discussed here.


Sort of varies his previous article.


And in another article in his tech section there's the points I made earlier.

"Stopping" bears with handgun or rifle cartridges

"Stopping" bears with handgun or rifle cartridges
www.buffalobore.com www.buffalobore.com

Excerpt.

GRIZZLY BEARS

First, not all bears are the same. Grizzly bears have a much different mindset than the black bear species. To stop a grizzly attack, you will PROBABLY have to kill it, but sometimes all you have to do is to hurt it badly, and the bear will become dissuaded. So, when planning to stop grizzly attacks, it is best to use a cartridge that will kill it—the quicker, the better. Interior grizzlies normally get no bigger than 500 lbs, but in Montana, I’ve seen interior bears around 900 lbs., but this is very rare. Coastal grizzlies, sometimes known as Alaskan Brown Bears, often exceed 1000 lbs.

> If you are relying on shoulder or heart/lung shots to kill such a bear, it takes a lot of cartridges. One that will make a big hole that goes very deeply through bone and into internal organs. If you hit him fatally in the chest area, you will then have roughly 15 to 30 seconds to stay alive before the bear learns he is dead.

> If you are relying on brain shots, it is not all that hard to kill adult grizzly bears. Almost any center fire cartridge of 357 bore or larger with a very hard, non-expanding, flat-nosed bullet will pierce a bear's skull with direct /frontal (between the eyes) hits. From the side angle, shoot them right at the bottom of the ear canal. These two shots are instant death if you are using the correct ammo.

The old MYTH that bullets will slide off a bear’s skull is pure hogwash when using modern ammo featuring bullets that will not mushroom when fired from a powerful handgun. When using high-powered rifles, it is OK if the bullet mushrooms as the high velocity of the rifle bullet, will puncture the bear's skull regardless because of its high velocity. One hundred fifty years ago, when the early settlers were heading west, the muzzleloaders they used fired pure lead (very soft) round balls that would or could flatten out against bone and possibly slide off, leaving only a surface wound when hitting a bear's head. Unless you are using pure lead bullets that are rounded, this situation is no longer a concern.
Click to expand...
I had a friend who went hunting wild bore with his .357mag. He did this once... as the bullet didn't penetrate the skull of a charging pig. He just made it up the tree next too him. After that, he used .44mag.

Hitting a charging animal head on is tricky and as has as much to do with luck as it does skill. I would not bet my life on a brain shot.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top