Never said it was simple, that’s why it’ll take an OSS project to do it right, hundreds or thousands of developers working on it worldwide. However any software problem can be cracked with time, effort and brains and now we have AI tools to make it easier (e.g. openAI and ChatGPT)Have you ever priced the Auto Manufacturers tool to install software updates? Its almost the price of a new car. Have you heard how they have idiot proofed it to the point they are unusable for anything except the manufacturer intended procedures.
Even the reversed engineer devices are extremely expensive.....
So while its possible, its not as simple as you say...
And you do realize that every manufacturer has encrypted security with data logging on their vehicle networks and devices.... ....which complicates and makes more expensive doing these overwrites with different software or data tables... ...and if you do it, there will be record you can't erase the Manufacturer will find if you make a warranty claim, which will be denied and warranty voided for changing the software...
I have been screaming for years, there needs to be legislation to define the software rights of vehicles owners that is being horribly abused by the Manufacturers..... ....what do we get instead, proposed kill switches....
So I'm with you, but I don't think its as easy and cheap as your saying, and lots of folks who try it are likely going to end up with voided warranties...
One of the reasons I bought a 1996 Ford F150 regular cab(300 cc inline 6, 5 speed manual, fuel injection, 150 downhill horsepower) was the simplicity and reliability.Makes me want to stick with my 2002 Ford Ranger until it's found on the road dead!
Today, most of the software is stored in Chips, on EPROM. The early days was hard wired chips and aftermarket performance was literally replacing chips on boards. Today it is software, stored on a chip and not some sort of hard drive, that is uploaded and written to the chips from other chips. The chips hardwired to do the writing to other chips are controlled as much as possible to keep them out people's hands so that the Auto Manufacturer's maintain their leverage on the market.Most of the engine control software is writtten on chips. You can almost bet that as soon as this comes out there will be aftermarket chips offered as replacements just like they offer chips for better horse power, better mileage etc. Probably even by the OEM manufacturer. It would be just too big a market to ignore.
You're right about that. No doubt enough of us have lathes and mills to produce our own replacement parts to keep our older, uncommunist vehicles on the road for awhile, but eventually we'll die or get too old and that sort of ingenuity will pass away. The dumbing down of society ensures that. And I ain't even talking about controlling the fuel. When the government decides we are no longer to have unfettered access to transportation they already possess the means to take it away.As stated by net engineer. They have the EPA. You can't do diddly squat with programming and chips anymore. Get caught defeating emissions controls, 10k fine plus confiscation, towing and storage until it's restored to factory. Now say, "well we don't have emissions testing here. " You're going to have to renew your plates. They'll just make you come in for a "quick scan" to make sure your vehicle has not been tampered with before issuing a sticker. Now say," I wanna keep my old Ford running" the new shenanigans is to destroy rebuildable cores for gov't money. You might remember this as cash for clunkers. Now they do it on heavy trucks, ag and off-road equipment. If any of us knew what our tax dollars actually pay for and subsidize... it's disgusting.
I've also read, on some higher end euro cars, you subscribe to the mfr for your options now. You want auto temp control, heated seats, that'll be $12/mo. Oh you want stability control and hill assist brakes, another $20. So for "them" to shut you down, it's already there. It's just been mandated to be available in 5 years for all mfrs.
Hopefully DOT and NHTSA get involved. As mentioned, these actions could result in unintended consequences.
You make good points but honestly with all the looming fiscal and monetary issues we’re facing in the short to medium term I believe access to transportation is going to end up being the least of our problems.😕You're right about that. No doubt enough of us have lathes and mills to produce our own replacement parts to keep our older, uncommunist vehicles on the road for awhile, but eventually we'll die or get to old and that sort of ingenuity will pass away. The dumbing down of society ensures that. And I ain't even talking about controlling the fuel. When the government decides we are no longer to have unfettered access to transportation they already possess the means to take it away.
You have a little company if it matters.But hey, I'm just some paranoid tin foil hat wearing kook.
It was a Jeep Cherokee, not the Grand Cherokee that is a totally different vehicle.Around 10 maybe 12 years ago, a couple of smart kids approached chrysler with a glitch that they found. What they proceeded to demonstrate was that they could take control of a vehicle on the highway at any time. They used a simple laptop and a Wi-Fi connection. Had a buddy driving a grand Cherokee on a closed road with go-pros on streaming. First they demonstrated how they could control HVAC, wipers, radio controls and windows. Then they went on to show how they could take "total control " of the vehicle. They had engine control, transmission control and brakes. What scared Chrysler, iirc, was when they were steering the vehicle. They did all this by backdooring the GPS. Once they had the "handshake " they could control everything via the CANBUS. Everything in modern vehicles runs on the CAN. Steering was the last to get wiper motors attached whete the hydraulic unit used to be. Chrysler was so upset, they hired the kids to consult and counter software hacking. This was documented in either popular mechanics or motortrend. I can't say for sure.
Fixed it for you.Government overreach again, typical of ALL GOVERNMENT AGENCIES EVERYWHERE
But what is your point in telling the story?My son was involved in a case where his department was searching for a rapist. It came to their attention that perhaps this guy had also kidnapped a young woman off of a street in Philadelphia in the middle of the night. From a security camera picture it was determined that the car that the kidnapper used in Philly had a Va state inspection sticker on the windshield. It soon became apparent that same man was probably responsible for both crimes. Soon it was determined that the car he was driving had a tracker placed on it by the car lot that had sold it to a family member. The car lot folks activated the tracker and within an hour LE in Maryland had arrested the kidnapper/serial rapist and had freed the young woman who had been grabbed off the street in Philadelphia. True story.
They’re already going that direction in Europe with vehicle subscription based programs. It’s the next evolution of the lease based model, you don’t own the vehicle you basically rent it.Having said that, my personal opinion is that at some point they'll simply abolish private ownership of automobiles to combat "Global Warming".
This was not about big gov't tracking a randon driver or car. The tracking device on the car in question had to be activated at the request of LE. There was no surveillance device on the perp's car just some form of Lojack that the car lot had installed to protect its investment. Many people who live in high crime areas install Lojack on their high dollar rides. I bet there are people who wished they'd installed air tags on their checked luggage this past week. I think as citizens we have a right to know the degree of domestic surveillance that the gov't processes, but I expect as technology evolves we will have to continue to push Congress for continued transparency, control, and protection. I figure my smart phone probably tracks me everywhere I go, and as long as I have it on me the gov't has the ability to know my wherabouts. I'm not thrilled about it. I've disabled some of the security features, but I expect Apple knows how to turn them back on. At least they claim they won't reveal my pass code. But to answer your question, in this case LE used a well known legal form of technology to locate a car. Their mission that day was to rescue a woman who was the victim of a violent assault. So the point was through the use of a tracker my story had a happy ending.But what is your point in telling the story?
Would you be okay with having a surveillance device on your car?
Well it was a long time ago, but you definitely got the story I read.It was a Jeep Cherokee, not the Grand Cherokee that is a totally different vehicle.
It was a security flaw/bug in the software that did the remote updating and checking of the modules on the CAN Bus.
They could hack in like they were Chrysler trying to read the OBD codes or update software remotely over the Vehicle Wi-Fi optional connection, then able to send CAN bus message over the CAN Network.
Chrysler was able to fix the flaw/bug in minutes, but took months to get the software updated in all the vehicles they produced.
The Chief Engineer for the Cherokee was fired because of how screwed up and rushed all the software integrated componentry was rushed and under tested/developed creating all sorts of horrible problems for the company. The biggest was the new ZF 9 speed Transmission software. That Fiat/Chrysler decided not to pay ZF to develop the software implimentation and instead elected to do it themselves. For 3 months parking lots filled with completed Cherokees, that couldn't be sold as they waited for the software for the transmissions to be completed, and even then the software was destroying the transmission for the next 2 years when it was finished.
The Hackers could send CAN commands to the Lane Keeping Feature and the ABS.... ....meaning they could get the steering wheel to bump a couple of degrees for a moment or get your brakes to chirp for a few seconds to slow you down.... ...so while it was possible they get your car off course or lurch with a momentary application of brakes, they really couldn't drive your car...