SIG M18 mishaps investigated in death of Airman 7/20/25
- Thread starter ECS686
- Start date
True however we did abide by it in most cases (supposedly Delta tested Hydra Shok in Panama and Seals are running G2 Gold Dots)
my point was more if someone want to make an argument about Military use/restriction of JHP they might want to throw around the proper Treaty that restricted it!
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Annihilator
Hellion
OldGrunt
Custom
You mean SillyGoose, son of Old_Me?
Annihilator
Hellion
Sort of what I was thinking!
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Annihilator
Hellion
SIG Sauer Responds After Air Force Pauses M18 Use
This incident places the MHS program—and SIG Sauer’s flagship military pistol—under increased scrutiny.
KillerFord1977
SAINT
As of now, the Air Force has not publicly confirmed whether the pistol malfunctioned or whether the discharge was due to user error. The pause will remain in effect until safety measures are reviewed and confirmed.SIG Sauer Responds After Air Force Pauses M18 Use
This incident places the MHS program—and SIG Sauer’s flagship military pistol—under increased scrutiny.gunsamerica.com
Such as?
Talyn
SAINT
I read that...
#1 - The firearm (loaded) was in a holster that was taken off the belt...
#1a/2 ....therefore there was a failure to "safe" (always) the firearm once the user was done using/carrying it.
#2/3 - the loaded firearm (in a holster) was placed on something (I assume it was a table) and was pointed in an unsafe direction that resulted in the incident.
My speculation & pending the results of a formal investigation.
My .02
How would #1 and #1a be any different if the belt was worn? It's still in a holster, trigger protected, and it's being engaged in less movement. In other words, those don't change the safety of the gun being secured in a holster, worn or not.
Your point about the muzzle of the gun pointing in an unsafe direction is sound... and should be called out as a causative factor.
Given the "shake to fire" videos about 320's with triggers that had been minimally (1mm) engaged , dropping it on a table could very well be the mechanism that allowed it to fire uncommanded... we'll have to wait to see the results of the holster inspection to find out.
Talyn
SAINT
In my #1 I stated a loaded firearm in a holster then taken off the belt.
I would never put a loaded (cartridge in the chamber) firearm into a holster/case that I then take off my person. I always "safe" (unload) a firearm once I'm done shooting/using it.
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My point is - if it's holstered it's no less safe / no more unsafe on the belt vs. off. In fact, on, it's likely to get jostled and bumped MORE.
Talyn
SAINT
My point is if it has a round in the chamber, holstered & off the belt its out of the control of the user and likely to get jostled/bumped/mishandled and unattended more than on the belt.
I think we're dancing around the same point.
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We're definitely disagreeing on this. It's much less likely being moved and bumped lying in a holster on a table vs. being on a belt, carried, moved, etc. It's why so many of these are happening in-holster.
Talyn
SAINT
Sorry I don't watch nor place any confidence in sensationalistic YouTube videos.
I don't have a dog in the fight over the P320 since I don't own/use one. I have what I have to meet my needs, so I won't get drug into YouTube P320 point-counter point arguments.
My point is, there are well-known safe gun-handling practices vs. dog and cat fights over a specific brand/model.
Case-in-point my IPSC/IDPA club did not permit shooters to walk around with a loaded gun in their holsters if they were not on-the-line for their run.
I'll reiterate, I always "safe" any gun when I'm done wearing/shooting it vs. allowing a loaded gun to lay around when it's not under my direct control, and/or have it loaded when into transport/storage.
I've made my points on being safe, and will wait until the formal investigation comes out.
My. 02
Then it's good that's not what I posted.
SimonRL
Ronin
Let me see him randomly pick six P320s and make this happen. No investigation by any legitimate source would use one test subject that has been used by multiple owners and subjected to who knows what. Not saying there isn’t a problem, but this hasn’t found it. This guy has 25k viewers but over 5 million views from this particular video. Cha-Ching.