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What Is the Best Caliber for Self-Defense?

rcurtner said:
I think we both can agree that Federal HST bullets are top tier.
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Yup. Agreed - it's one of the best choices in both calibers. It's also surprising to see the performance of some defensive rounds that are quite popular and have a good reputation, but didn't perform anywhere near as well.

HansGruber said:
That’s cherry-picking high-performing 9mm bullets and comparing them to poor performing .45’s.
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Pointing out that there is overlap in the terminal expansion size of both calibers, and that it depends on what specific ammo one chooses, isn't "cherry-picking." Many people seem to assume that any .45 ACP hollow point is better, cuz "bigger." I'm just pointing out that "bigger" isn't guaranteed, and depends more on one's specific ammo choices than many people seem to think. That isn't my opinion, and it isn't "disingenuous" - it's borne out by the data on the LG ballistic tables (and elsewhere).

But even if we say that, ".45 ACP definitely makes a bigger hole," I still remain unconvinced that 1/10" (or in many cases, less) traveling at less than 1,000 fps makes any difference whatsoever when it meets the elasticity of human tissue. I've never heard anyone say they can identify what a .45 hole looks like in a cadaver. If someone has data to counter that, I'm all ears.

In the end, Hans, I think we both are agreement that it,

HansGruber said:
Doesn’t. F’ing. MATTER.
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Everything I've posted in this thread is to support exactly that.
😉
 
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Hammer67 said:
I know you already know all this Hans, and that you're playing devil's advocate and raising these points rhetorically, so I'll play along:



The Ellefritz study actually does address "one shot stops." And the conclusion is that there was statistically no difference among the 'middle of the road' calibers in this regard.

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And that's where we start to drift into mythmaking and assumptions, imo. The "bigger must be better" argument (displacement). The reality is that there is no discernible improvement in incapacitation with the 'wider' calibers, i.e. .45 ACP vs 9mm, whether we are talking about "one shot stops" or multiple shots.

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People tend to get very myopic when it comes to the differences between the common handgun calibers and amplify those differences way out of proportion, and lose the forest for the trees. The truth is that the common handgun calibers just aren't really any different in meaningful ways that affect terminal effectiveness - not in terms of velocity, not in width and not in how many world wars they've won. At the end of the day, they all do the same thing - they put little holes in people. There is no massive hydrostatic shock from these rounds - they just put holes in people, and you either hit the heart or you hit the CNS, and they go down fairly quickly, or you miss those things and the threat is still a threat which now has a little hole in it.

But of course, none of this will keep people from continuing to want to debate irrelevant minutiae.
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let me go neck deep
depends on how i feel leaving the house, and destination and or how long i have to drive , clothes , belt, which car , how much coffee i had or have with me, snacks
could be the service xd 9mm, or the 1911 ronin, or the sub compact 9mm , 45acp or dare i say my 380 bersa
seems by the above chart..i am in the 80% good range ..
best bet is to BE ARMED
:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :love: :love: (y) :unsure: :eek:
 
Team Springfield Captain Rob Leatham says, “My position on this subject is well documented: I like the .45. While currently, I do shoot more 9mm in competition than anything else, it’s because of the rules and subsequent advantages the lower-powered, lighter-kicking 9 has. For defensive use, especially in a mid- or full-sized, easily controlled pistol, I would choose the .45 every time.”
 
The article stated that penetration, terminal effectiveness, speed/controllability, and capacity are how to judge each caliber. I carry a 45 ACP. To me shot placement is vital. Maybe we should judge the shooter instead of the caliber. The caliber chosen would handle penetration and terminal effectiveness. The shooter handles speed and controllability. Capacity would become irrelevant if the shooter places the rounds in a vital area. So carry a 45 and kill the bastard.
 
Ginkus said:
The article stated that penetration, terminal effectiveness, speed/controllability, and capacity are how to judge each caliber. I carry a 45 ACP. To me shot placement is vital. Maybe we should judge the shooter instead of the caliber. The caliber chosen would handle penetration and terminal effectiveness. The shooter handles speed and controllability. Capacity would become irrelevant if the shooter places the rounds in a vital area. So carry a 45 and kill the bastard.
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How good are you with placing rounds on a moving target when they are moving, and you are moving (if you’re not moving, you’re an easy target)…and the adrenaline dump has your knees, thighs, shoulders & wrists shaking…

Fast recovery on your follow ups is a real issue in the real world.
 
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HansGruber said:
How good are you with placing rounds on a moving target when they are moving, and you are moving (if you’re not moving, you’re an easy target)…and the adrenaline dump has your knees, thighs, shoulders & wrists shaking…

Fast recovery on your follow ups because a real issue in the real world.
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You made my point. Shot placement is paramount. Judge the shooter more severely than the caliber. Practice, practice, practice.
 
rcurtner said:
Come on guys, some of you are trying to stop fellow forum members right to comment by showing boredom memes. Of course that's your right but it's just not cool. Here again, just my opinion.
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Not stopping anyone from commenting. Just watching the show, or game...

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BTW coolness is a relative concept. In other words, cool exists only in comparison with things considered less cool.
 
HansGruber said:
So you’d still choose .45, even though studies say it doesn’t matter?
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Yes. I joined the Marines in ‘72 and was weened on the M14 and 1911 (I later learned the M16 and M9). However, I enjoy shooting the 1911 and I am very proficient. I am confident with the 1911. I am now an ‘Old Dog’ and new tricks do not attract me. If this is boring. Fine. But I will agree with Lt Col Cooper: “The 1911 pistol remains the service pistol of choice in the eyes of those who understand the problem. Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair.”
 
Hi Mike. When I worked as an unsworn officer in the LBPD’s Marine Patrol unit, I used a Colt Gold Cup 1911 with a Harrts Recoil Reducer. Interesting device, it installed in lieu of the recoil spring guide, was an enclosed/sealed tube containing mercury and ball bearings. I don’t know if it was a placebo effect, but it seemed to help nicely. Shooting a 9mm on one occasion, I felt no less recoil. I miss that weapon; it was stolen, and I had it tricked out for a southpaw shooter. Cheers.
 
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