SigP320 Safety Problems Continue – Resulting In Bans from Police Training Ranges!

[Lab4Us]

Well it’s safe to say an Sig 320 going off on its own wasn’t the case!

18 years of a carry license and he didn’t know better!!!

While no fan of the P320 (or Sig as a company), this case appears unrelated to the other P320 “uncommanded discharges”. I don’t recall any other one where the subject was pointing their P320 at a target when it went off. And, while I don’t feel like watching this video again to confirm, but I seem to remember one comment of it discharged when exiting his vehicle, then a different comment of “my gun misfired”, or something similar, after he exited his vehicle and was approaching the boys.

Lots of spin in this one. To add, I didn’t hear his attorneys once say he needed to draw his gun as he approached the boys because he was in fear of his life?

I can easily agree with folks who might feel the shooter was fault in this case - and not just because a bullet was discharged.

 

[ECS686]

While no fan of the P320 (or Sig as a company), this case appears unrelated to the other P320 “uncommanded discharges”. I don’t recall any other one where the subject was pointing their P320 at a target when it went off. And, while I don’t feel like watching this video again to confirm, but I seem to remember one comment of it discharged when exiting his vehicle, then a different comment of “my gun misfired”, or something similar, after he exited his vehicle and was approaching the boys.

Lots of spin in this one. To add, I didn’t hear his attorneys once say he needed to draw his gun as he approached the boys because he was in fear of his life?

I can easily agree with folks who might feel the shooter was fault in this case - and not just because a bullet was discharged.

Yeah lots of failure in the property owners case and his legal team is grasping for straws. To me when they said that and that he had been a carry license holder for 18 years they sealed it for the prosecution as he should have known better!

That said, I have taught the private cites in side since I retired and the sad thing I have had to factor in several Minutes because I get some folks that are convinced they can point guns or do whatever when someone is simply fleeing a detached garage or the like.

The worst part is a lot of time it’s folks that should know better! (Or at least when they say they were a reserve PD or MP years ago and they ask what they ask you wonder if they even had a class back then

 

[MN.Militia]

Well it’s safe to say an Sig 320 going off on its own wasn’t the case!

18 years of a carry license and he didn’t know better!!!

Sounds like he violated every rule of gun safety, probably did so with the intent to intimidate the teens, and off to the races we go. Being a longtime gun owner, he no doubt knows about the P320's issues and thought he might be able to dodge accountability for his criminal negligence. But that will all be for the prosecutors to prove.
Moreover, this story has no bearing on every one of the hundreds of cases where responsible gun users did not have their hand on the gun and the gun was properly secured in holsters made specifically for the P320.

 

[Sharks79]

came across this video while in a YouTube hole. I’m still extremely new to firearms so curious on thoughts.

 

[Lab4Us]

came across this video while in a YouTube hole. I’m still extremely new to firearms so curious on thoughts.

Okay, took the plunge and watched start to finish. Flashback nightmares of professor lectures in college (I went long enough ago all classes were “butts in seats”!).

His theory seems reasonable, but so does his cautionary tale of his fix could cause unintended consequences. Since the pre upgrade didn’t have the second leg on the sear but the post upgrade did, I’d wonder whether removing that second leg affects the drop safe factor of post upgrade P320s.

Even it this completely fixed the problems with the P320, Sig will never admit it. They can’t. Instant bankruptcy and potential criminal litigation if it came out they knew they could fix it and didn’t,

I chose option one long ago. Owned and traded away several P320s. Not like I didn’t shoot them, and I never had a problem with them, but I’d seen enough “smoke” indicating potential “fire” by the point I decided to dump them. And I got rid of them early enough I did NOT take a soaking on the trades, outside of the usual offsets for any LGS trades/sales.

SS P320 X-Carry - 19 Mar 19 - 18 Apr 23 - 742 rounds

SS P320 X-Compact - 9 Apr 19 - 18 Apr 23 - 885 rounds

SS P320 X-Compact - 15 Apr 19 - 18 Apr 23 - 790 rounds

Because Sig at this point had ticked me off so bad by the way they treated those who experienced and reported uncommanded discharges, I decided to also dump my P365s x 4 and a P229. All of which I’d had for a while.

SS P229 Legion RX - 2 Aug 18 - 8 Aug 23 - 1025 rounds

SS P365 NRA - 1 Jul 19 - 18 Apr 23 - 439 rounds

SS P365 SAS - 7 Oct 19 - 18 Apr 23 - 745 rounds

SS P365 basic - 20 Dec 18 - 18 Apr 23 - 1575 rounds

SS P365 XL - 2 Mar 20 - 18 Apr 23 - 750 rounds

With the P320s, life’s too short as it is and I wanted nothing to do with a potential uncommanded discharge I’d have no control over. With the rest, a matter of principle. Yes, they already had my money, but I had no intention of further supporting them (Sig, as a company). If they were to ever accept responsibility for their P320 issues, post initial upgrade, I might reconsider but as I stated above, I don’t think they can at this point in the conversation.

 

[Sharks79]

Thanks for the feedback!

dude definitely has American psycho Patrick Bateman cadence and tone to his voice

 

[MN.Militia]

Another P320 video. Seems like Sig wants to label all P320 litigants as anti-gun karens in NH courts, even if they aren't anti-gun...

Facing Mounting P320 Lawsuits, SIG Asks For Immunity
Guns & Gadgets 2nd Amendment News

 

[Lab4Us]

I could be mistaken, but isn’t there a Federal law already on the books protecting gun manufacturers from “misuse” of their products? Doesn’t just protect gun manufacturers but lots of other industries.

Sig thinking they need extra protection on top of that…hmmm. I’m a pretty firm proponent of 2A, but if Sig disappeared today, I wouldn’t bat an eye. And I’m still waiting for an explanation of why it’s always a P320 going off uncommanded, never a P365, never a P229, nor other Sigs or other gun manufacturers products at the rate Sigs P320s fail.

If this were a concerted effort to take down Sig, folks would be claiming all the various models are defective in design. Appears there is only one, and where there is smoke, there is very likely fire.

The Sig P320 design issue is NOT a 2A issue, no matter how much Sig and their lawyers try to spin it.

By the way, Wilson Combat is having a 30% off sale (as of 31 May 25) on their custom Sigs for those willing to roll the dice.

Custom Sig Sauer Handguns - Wilson Combat

Wilson Combat has been the innovator in custom pistols, long guns, and accessories since 1977. Home of the Wilson Combat 1911, EDC X9, WCP320, and more!

wilsoncombat.com

 

[MN.Militia]

I could be mistaken, but isn’t there a Federal law already on the books protecting gun manufacturers from “misuse” of their products? Doesn’t just protect gun manufacturers but lots of other industries.

Sig thinking they need extra protection on top of that…hmmm. I’m a pretty firm proponent of 2A, but if Sig disappeared today, I wouldn’t bat an eye. And I’m still waiting for an explanation of why it’s always a P320 going off uncommanded, never a P365, never a P229, nor other Sigs or other gun manufacturers products at the rate Sigs P320s fail.

If this were a concerted effort to take down Sig, folks would be claiming all the various models are defective in design. Appears there is only one, and where there is smoke, there is very likely fire.

The Sig P320 design issue is NOT a 2A issue, no matter how much Sig and their lawyers try to spin it.

By the way, Wilson Combat is having a 30% off sale (as of 31 May 25) on their custom Sigs for those willing to roll the dice.

Custom Sig Sauer Handguns - Wilson Combat

Wilson Combat has been the innovator in custom pistols, long guns, and accessories since 1977. Home of the Wilson Combat 1911, EDC X9, WCP320, and more!

wilsoncombat.com

That federal law is the PLCAA - Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. The one thing that PLCAA does not cover is defective product. The very thing that people are suing Sig for. And when the gun-owning public realizes that this whole time Sig has been gaslighting them, the company will simply cease to exist for lack of customers...

Late in Trump's first term, Sig Sauer closed their production facility in Germany. Apparently, this was because Germany had cancelled (or declined to renew) ALL of their contracts with Sig, for reasons that I could never ascertain. So I put that on my mind's back burner... and JUST NOW I'm wondering if these cancelled contracts were due to defects in design or manufacturing. We will never know if that's the case because no nation in Europe has a 1st Amendment analogue.

 

[rcurtner]

Yesterday at my new range a guy was shooting a Sig P320. He was about ten feet to my left drawing firing from a OWB holster at 10 yards. After reading numerous reports about problems with the 320 I kept a close eye on him. He didn't have any problems and was shooting very small groups.

 

[MN.Militia]

HOLY MOLY!!

At least it wasn't a P320 gone rogue on a self-discharging spree!! < /sarcasm >

 

[HayesGreener]

Old news .. just like Glock Leg

Lets talk about training and thousands of people, including LEO, and Military, that get the bare bones firearms training. Cops are better trained in hand to hand and automobile high speed pursuit than firearms.

Yep. There was a time 35 years ago when many agencies would not allow a Glock. It turned out to be a training issue-keep finger and other things off the damn trigger.

 

[HayesGreener]

I highly respect Bruce Gray's words at Grayguns. Having owned and used 6 P320's in my training business, I just can't see how you can make one fire without the trigger being pulled.

With respect to drop testing guns. I point to the FBI testing years ago when they were testing for a duty handgun. Their testing protocol for drop testing was to drop the gun 3 times on concrete from a height of 3 feet. The point is, they understoid that if you drop any gun repeatedly, eventually something is going to fail.

 

[Lab4Us]

I think the overarching issue is that phrase “make one fire”. Not from you @HayesGreener, but may of the P320 defenders use that same phrase. I have always maintained it (the discharges, no matter how they’re defined) were due to excessive knocks and bumps while being carried in holsters, infrequently removed from those holsters, and almost never reset like done by those whose “carry” and are not LE, where those using for EDC generally unload/reload daily or every day or two, and reset the striker. After enough bumps/bangs/whacks, with zero striker resets, striker eventually does things resulting in a discharge.

Any striker fired gun I carry gets unloaded and reloaded before I carry it because I prefer to know the striker is in its fully reset position. Just has always seemed a prudent thing to do. And yes, I do alternate my top magazine rounds and fire off my carry ammo regularly.

 

[MN.Militia]

Yep. There was a time 35 years ago when many agencies would not allow a Glock. It turned out to be a training issue-keep finger and other things off the damn trigger.

Proper gun handling should be a norm. That alone solves 99.9% of the issues. But the remaining .01% are the UD's that are entirely Sig's to own...
The fact that EVERY other chassis system has 0000000% UD's says it all. I dare ANY Sig fanboi to identify EVEN SO MUCH AS A SINGLE CASE of non-Sig chassis gun fails!! And IF/AND/OR WHEN that happens, I'll proclaim it from the mountain-tops!!!!

I wouldn't give a rodent's **** if this went unnoticed, but the more people simp for a company who sh!ts down everyone's neck over a glaring, documented, FACTUALLY ESTABLISHED ISSUE, the MORE I WILL CALL OUT the OBVIOUS BULL MANURE!!
That being said, I will heartily go and buy a Sig P365 the very instant I have the money to do so. This isn't about brand loyalty; this is about individual model worthiness!

 

[PAGunGuy]

I think the overarching issue is that phrase “make one fire”. Not from you @HayesGreener, but may of the P320 defenders use that same phrase. I have always maintained it (the discharges, no matter how they’re defined) were due to excessive knocks and bumps while being carried in holsters, infrequently removed from those holsters, and almost never reset like done by those whose “carry” and are not LE, where those using for EDC generally unload/reload daily or every day or two, and reset the striker. After enough bumps/bangs/whacks, with zero striker resets, striker eventually does things resulting in a discharge.

Any striker fired gun I carry gets unloaded and reloaded before I carry it because I prefer to know the striker is in its fully reset position. Just has always seemed a prudent thing to do. And yes, I do alternate my top magazine rounds and fire off my carry ammo regularly.

I am LE and my gun is unloaded every night. Mag out, eject the live round. Reloaded every morning. Unfortunately we have to keep the same ammo for one year. We have to use the ammo they give us, and they only have us shoot it off and replace it once per year (at qualifying).

 

[HayesGreener]

I am LE and my gun is unloaded every night. Mag out, eject the live round. Reloaded every morning. Unfortunately we have to keep the same ammo for one year. We have to use the ammo they give us, and they only have us shoot it off and replace it once per year (at qualifying).

We replaced duty ammo twice a year at qualifications. With our high humidity it is a good practice.

 

[Bassbob]

Unloading and loading them seems unnecessary and potentially problematic to me.

 

[HansGruber]

I am LE and my gun is unloaded every night. Mag out, eject the live round. Reloaded every morning. Unfortunately we have to keep the same ammo for one year. We have to use the ammo they give us, and they only have us shoot it off and replace it once per year (at qualifying).

See if your higher ups are savvy about primer deadening due to load/unload cycles. It’s a thing.

At bare minimum, cycle your rounds, so it’s not the same one getting chambered/ejected constantly.

 

[HayesGreener]

Unloading and loading them seems unnecessary and potentially problematic to me.

It used to be a teaching item in police academies in revolver days to unload and separate gun and ammo with kid safety at home in mind. We did not have the plethora of home gun lockers in the day. When ISP first issued the Model 39 S&W they urged troopers to remove the magazine which rendered the gun inert with magazine disconnect. In fact the magazine disconnect was a big selling feature. Thinking changes over time.