Concealed vs. Open

[Ranger715]

My biggest concern is turning the incident into a shooting gallery.
If everyone carried open or concealed and badguy starts shooting, I think a lot of people would join in and soon everyone is shooting at everyone else.

Yes, that sounds like a serious problem except that it never happens. Let us practice the Golden Rule. If you want to carry your gun, you have to let others carry theirs. Let's assume the best of each other, rather than the worst, and stop worrying. No fearful prediction of the gun control hysterics has ever come true.

 

[cico7]

My biggest concern is turning the incident into a shooting gallery.
If everyone carried open or concealed and badguy starts shooting, I think a lot of people would join in and soon everyone is shooting at everyone else.

I think this was meant in response to chic 7's comment. I agree with David N., "when the shooting the starts most people scatter". The classic "gun fight" is more the exception then the norm.

What? Dude that's more than a little far fetched. In fact it's the same argument democrats in Missouri made when we went constitutional carry. It's ridiculous. Show me one single example of this happening. Where people suddenly lose their minds and everyone starts shooting at someone.

I think back a bit and recall 2 shootings here recently. Both cases cited one party shooting at another but the details released mentioned nothing of armed citizens getting involved. If you are in a shopping mall, odds are someone is probably carrying a firearm wouldn't you agree? But I do not recall any mentioning of someone else getting involved.

Between my first comment on the shooting gallery and my last comment @David N. posted

My experience is when the shooting starts most people scatter.

@Bassbob I recant my statement.

 

[Susquash]

I would likely give you a similar response under the circumstances you describe. You describe yourself as being nosy, condescending and very impolite. You made an uninvited critique of a stranger's behavior, just like I am doing to you right now. It's the same as asking a stranger, "Why are you so fat? Don't you know it's bad for you?" You might be right, but it's the wrong thing to do.

See how it feels? Gets your back up, right?

Actually the reason I asked the individual why he was open carrying was that I was trying to understand his reasoning for doing so. I had been a law enforcement officer in the area for over 30 years and now taught firearms at the police academy for new recruits. I was neither impolite nor critical. My statements on what I had observed and experienced with people open carrying comes from over 70 years of observations.

 

[BobM]

Actually the reason I asked the individual why he was open carrying was that I was trying to understand his reasoning for doing so. I had been a law enforcement officer in the area for over 30 years and now taught firearms at the police academy for new recruits. I was neither impolite nor critical. My statements on what I had observed and experienced with people open carrying comes from over 70 years of observations.

Is understandable from a service oriented background. Speaking with complete strangers can sometimes come easy from that type of background. I can usually relate and speak with or to most people too, but it depends on what and where for example.

Thing some may want to remember is not everyone does or has a service oriented background or experience? Public speaking to auditoriums full of people for example, puts many people in a tailspin? But, in one on one or in small groups they're fine? Plus, many people from a young age, mostly in or from larger cities, were taught to avoid contact with strangers? Am thinking that some of those thoughts may have lingered longer than some may have intended?

 

[Anchorsaweigh]

"3. Uneducated persons seeing you carrying a firearm in public where it is not a cultural norm may very well call 911. Never mind that the police understand you have the right to carry in the open where it is lawful, they will still respond. Who has time for that nonsense?"

This.

 

[surveyordave]

"3. Uneducated persons seeing you carrying a firearm in public where it is not a cultural norm may very well call 911. Never mind that the police understand you have the right to carry in the open where it is lawful, they will still respond. Who has time for that nonsense?"

This.

Not my idea of fun, but many (perhaps most?) of the people you see blatantly "doing" open carry (ie rifle in Wal-Mart) are doing so to move the needle on what is perceived as normal. When the cops are called and nothing happens, they likely view that as a win essentially an opportunity to educate the 911 caller and their circle of influence. They are activists. (You Tube is full of them.)

For the most part, you can carry OWB and have a shirt occasionally cover the butt and no even notices. 99% of the population are not looking for a handgun on your waist, and those that are are likely to notice your firearm even if it is concealed.

Point being that there are perhaps different motivations in open carry.

That said, I am not comfortable playing games with firearms, which is what an activist seems to be doing. But, as they say, "Freedom isn't free." I will not judge these people as whackos or stupid. I simply acknowledge they are not like me.

 

[KASHIRA-3]

I think everyone should open carry. No question we would all behave better.
I prefer to conceal so i am not a distraction.

I am not sure that there are many "bad behaviors" that can lawfully be addressed by a firearm. In fact, there are very very few issues that call for the need of a gun. If your idea is that wearing guns will encourage people to behave better, I will have to politely disagree. Guns are not talismans.

 

[C. Sumpin]

I am not sure that there are many "bad behaviors" that can lawfully be addressed by a firearm. In fact, there are very very few issues that call for the need of a gun. If your idea is that wearing guns will encourage people to behave better, I will have to politely disagree. Guns are not talismans.

We are back to wondering what can only be guessed at.......how many perps canceled a crime because the intended victim or someone nearby was openly armed (and perhaps ready to resist).

 

[ACIinventor]

More people carrying guns, open or concealed, increases the probability of accidental discharges. That is simply a fact. Even people with great experience handling firearms can fall prey to that inescapable probability. Continuous training is the only way to address the probability issue. Good initial training is a must. Followed by effective and periodic training to refresh and reinforce safe gun handling. I've always considered my many years of military training to be that good initial training. But I continue to seek additional training to refresh and reinforce. That continuous training also provides the advantage of introducing the latest developments in firearm safety. I choose to participate in continuous training. Whether it should be mandated, is a debatable issue. Although, I do see a need for initial safety training to be mandated.

 

[ACIinventor]

I am not sure that there are many "bad behaviors" that can lawfully be addressed by a firearm. In fact, there are very very few issues that call for the need of a gun. If your idea is that wearing guns will encourage people to behave better, I will have to politely disagree. Guns are not talismans.

The 1911 I open carry in Rutherford County, TN has reduced the "bad behaviors" of criminal sheriff's deputies and their goons. There hasn't been another blatant murder attempt in several years now. Talisman? Maybe, maybe not. I think it's what I can do with my weapon that causes their discretion.

 

[Bassbob]

The 1911 I open carry in Rutherford County, TN has reduced the "bad behaviors" of criminal sheriff's deputies and their goons. There hasn't been another blatant murder attempt in several years now. Talisman? Maybe, maybe not. I think it's what I can do with my weapon that causes their discretion.

I was just in Nashville yesterday. As I always do before going somewhere I checked out their ( Tennessee) gun laws. Not as good as Missouri or even Kentucky, but still pretty good I'd say. I will say I saw no sign of cancel culture anywhere. At least outside of Nashville which seems like mostly Hipster ***s.

I can't speak to your sheriff or his deputies though.

 

[neil0311]

I am not sure that there are many "bad behaviors" that can lawfully be addressed by a firearm. In fact, there are very very few issues that call for the need of a gun. If your idea is that wearing guns will encourage people to behave better, I will have to politely disagree. Guns are not talismans.

I agree with this and although I won’t restate my comments earlier in the thread, I still maintain there are very few, if any, benefits of open carry vs concealed carry in urban and suburban areas.

A firearm is for self defense in the most dire of circumstances, when your life is at imminent risk or someone wants to do you severe bodily harm, not for projecting force.

 

[neil0311]

We are back to wondering what can only be guessed at.......how many perps canceled a crime because the intended victim or someone nearby was openly armed (and perhaps ready to resist).

I would guess very, very few.

And my rationale is based simply on the fact that the number of people who open carry (at least east of the Mississippi River) is minuscule. And if a criminal was deterred by that one guy in a million open carrying, then they probably just moved on to someone else.

I guarantee they didn’t go home and say to themselves “I guess I’ll quit my life of crime and stop doing opiates because I saw someone carrying a gun today. It’s too dangerous out there for me.”

 

[C. Sumpin]

I would guess very, very few.

And my rationale is based simply on the fact that the number of people who open carry (at least east of the Mississippi River) is minuscule. And if a criminal was deterred by that one guy in a million open carrying, then they probably just moved on to someone else.

I guarantee they didn’t go home and say to themselves “I guess I’ll quit my life of crime and stop doing opiates because I saw someone carrying a gun today. It’s too dangerous out there for me.”

If no one is open carrying then of course there would be very few.

And that one guy in a million should be grateful for himself (that his open carry saved him from being a victim) and sorry for whomever the next victim was.

 

[neil0311]

If no one is open carrying then of course there would be very few.

And that one guy in a million should be grateful for himself (that his open carry saved him from being a victim) and sorry for whomever the next victim was.

That assumes the bad guy isn’t thinking “hey, I’ll jump that guy and get his gun” or any number of things that make the open carrier a bigger target.

Unless anyone has some type of study or stats that can somehow substantiate that open carrying makes you less likely to be a victim than a concealed carrier, consider me a skeptic.

 

[C. Sumpin]

That assumes the bad guy isn’t thinking “hey, I’ll jump that guy and get his gun” or any number of things that make the open carrier a bigger target.

Unless anyone has some type of study or stats that can somehow substantiate that open carrying makes you less likely to be a victim than a concealed carrier, consider me a skeptic.

Stalemate then.

 

[David N.]

I still remember the guy standing in line at McDonald's when his pistol was stolen from his OWB holster by another patron.

 

[C. Sumpin]

I still remember the guy standing in line at McDonald's when his pistol was stolen from his OWB holster by another patron.

How about more detail on that one?
Joke? For real; did the dude realize he'd been ripped? What was his response? Did he recover? How?

If that is a real case scenario then I fault the open carrier for not being attentive/securing his weapon.

 

[David N.]

How about more detail on that one?
Joke? For real; did the dude realize he'd been ripped? What was his response? Did he recover? How?

If that is a real case scenario then I fault the open carrier for not being attentive/securing his weapon.

For real, on YouTube somewhere. He appeared to be oblivious to his surroundings up until that point. He chased the robber outside and it was reported that he was shot with his own gun.

 

[uspatriot1960]

I told this story earlier in the thread and it is anecdotal, but I am in the ATM business and carry open when in high risk areas putting cash in ATMs. I know for a fact that my open carry in those situations has deterred a robbery. A patron of one of the establishment told me that robbery was considered by someone she knew, but never happened because they saw I was carrying.

Other than that, you can't prove a negative. How can you come up with statistics which show what didn't happen? I know this, if I was a burglar and had the option of robbing two houses and in one I knew the homeowner was armed and the other I knew the homeowner was unarmed, I would rob the unarmed household.

I'm not a big proponent of open carry for a variety of reasons, but do believe that there are some advantages in some circumstances where it is appropriate and a deterrent...