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Does This Gun Prove That John Moses Browning Got the 1911 Wrong?

Old_Me

Professional
Lol talk about your inflammatory titles. Got it wrong, hardly. That is like saying cows got milk wrong. Not in the least, some people just prefer to add chocolate to milk. Both taste good to me...
i think cows DID get milk wrong, as i cannot have milk, as well as i cannot have chocolate, danged cows, how could they do this to me, me, me......??

as for the 1911, i personally think in 45 ACP is where it belongs. it is "traditional" much like say an M1A with a wooden stock over the plastic, (yuck, blah, eww, puke) stocks..

tradition is where it should be with many things.

if i could...?

i'd have spoked wooden wheels on all my cars....the "traditional" way they were built....... (yuck, blah, ewww, puke) air inflated rubber tires. all they do is GET FLAT..........!!!!!!!!
 
I have recently shot a Ruger SR1911 in 9mm, a "commander." it worked fine. Recoil as you might expect is a fair bit softer than a GM, especially with an aluminum receiver. Comfortable pistol if one wishes to shoot the 9.

I've shot 9 ever since I started shooting, but I did morph to the .45ACP very early on, learning how to build them with the late Jim Hoag in California in the early 80s. Shot a little IPSC and IDPA, met Jeff Cooper, and now I live within spitting distance of Gunsite where both Jeff and Janelle are interred.

Now I may be all wrong, but I simply prefer Old Slabsides in all steel, whether a Combat Commander or a Government Model. When the slide to frame, barrel to slide, and trigger pull are "right," pretty much everything is Right.

I'll probably never change. God Bless you all.
 
While I agree with everything about the 1911 and its namesake cartridge, I have to wonder what was going on in JMB's mind when he started designing the HI Power. He abandoned the .45 in favor of the 9mm. I believe he was far ahead of others in seeing something superior in that cartridge. Perhaps he saw that it would become the predominant cartridge due to its ease in learning to shoot with it in comparison to the .45. Who knows, but we tend to look at the .45 and 1911 as his crowning achievement, and gloss over the fact that he turned his mind to a gun firing a cartridge he didn't develop.
I'm not a big 1911 fan due to a bad experience with a clone in the early 80's. That gun, a Star or Llama I don't recall which, was the original Jam-O-Matic. One of the few pistols I've bought that I sighed with relief when some other sucker bought it from me. Now, I'm retired, and on a fixed income, so my purchases are something I must save up for, but in Biden's economy, there's nothing to save.
 
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DB404

Alpha
It is my understanding that the 1911 .45 ACP was a parallel development with the 1910 Colt in 9.8mm that was developed for European military trials. Fired a 130 gr bullet at 1300 fps, IIRC. This 1910 Colt is usually described as being a 3/4 or 7/8 size version of the 1911. 4 examples are known. In a competitive test in Rumania, one ran through 4,000 rounds successfully. 4.25” barrel, thinner slide and grip than a 1911. If the Ronin has similar attributes, it’s a winner. BTW, a .375” bullet diameter (approximately 9.8mm) is a very interesting concept for a CCW piece.
 
The articles a bit of clickbait.

John Browning chose niether the .45 or the 9mm for either the 1911 or the P35. Both were mandated by the respective governments interested in the project.

9mm 1911s have been around since 1959, it's not like Springfield's done something revolutionary.
 
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Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled “Does This Gun Prove That John Moses Browning Got the 1911 Wrong?” and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/does-this-gun-prove-that-john-moses-browning-got-the-1911-wrong/.

Interesting article. As has been listed here already, after JMB finished the 1911 frame he travel to Europe and worked what some have called the Better 1911 which was the Browning Hi Power. The discussion is mute in my opinion as the 1911 style frame has been converted to so many different calibers from 22LR to 455.
A couple of things to consider
1. The 1911 style frame was actually started in 1902 and progressed to 1911 when it was adopted by the US Military. The German military was also interested as were the Brits interested in the pistol as well, hence the 455 caliber. The US in turn was also interested in the German Luger in 9mm but actual requested the pistol in 45 ACP and to have a grip safety installed. (expensive and rare)

History tells us how all that worked out. The 1911 frame was designed at the that time with the thought processess at that time.
2. The design has proven it worth over the last 100 + years. The design has also shown that depending upon the end user, it can be modified to accomodate various calibers of ammunition.

So the converstion while interesting and a good source of discussion, it all depends on the end user. If you like the design in 45 ACP and desire to have the knock power that the (at that time period) 38 did not have then you are good to go.
If you desire to have a 1911 frame in 9mm with reduced recoil, commonality of most defacto standard ammo, the the 9mm is for you. If you desire to shoot 22 LR in a 1911 frame to practice, save costs but enjoy the weight and style you may do so.

To say that one caliber is better than another is incorrect (opinion) as it depends upon the end user.
I have been trained early on in the 1911 frame and enjoy them immeasurability. I also use, understand and like other pistol and revolvers as well. (Diffently prefer the 1911 style frame and operation)
 

TTucker

Alpha
I like the .45. can take or leave the 9 but, I far prefer the .38 Super. Muck more powerful than the 9, not near as much recoil as the .45 and at my age, that's become a biggie. Plus, I used the .38 Super to attain master class in IPSC, so that's probably why I like it so much. Running a 175 power factor and shooting .11 splits into the A sone will give you a lot of confidence.
 

Annihilator

SAINT
Founding Member
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Nothing and I repeat nothing is wrong with John Moses Browning’s 1911, no matter what caliber…..
 

Pitdogg2

Professional
While I agree with everything about the 1911 and its namesake cartridge, I have to wonder what was going on in JMB's mind when he started designing the HI Power. He abandoned the .45 in favor of the 9mm. I believe he was far ahead of others in seeing something superior in that cartridge. Perhaps he saw that it would become the predominant cartridge due to its ease in learning to shoot with it in comparison to the .45.
Naaa JMB was in Belgium designing the HP and the 9mm was a very common round in Europe, when in Rome comes to mind.
 
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