Gas prices...

[HansGruber]

You know, all the folks crying about the grid not being ready…

You sound like the people who scoffed at automobiles a century ago…

“There’s no way to get fuel everywhere…there’s no gas stations within 100 miles!”

Etc.

Nobody is saying that we’re going 100% renewable RIGHT NOW—at least nobody worth taking serious.

But in 10-20 years? Yeah, if we can keep big oil from blocking the upgrading of the grid, it’ll be in place.

Just like by the 1930’s you could buy gas in every small town across the country.

 

[Jfal]

Anyone else see that documentary news piece about how environmentally destructive the mining of the minerals needed for the EV batteries? What I saw was a shocker, but I can't vouch for its authenticity, it having been an internet source, and likely as reliable as MSM news.

 

[10mmLife]

Electric vehicles are all fine and dandy until you factor in the open pit mining needed to extract lithium. Lithium is an abundant mineral but it's only found in very small quantities so a massive amount of earth needs to be disturbed to extract a small amount.

 

[Wannabewoodsman]

Nuclear only makes sense long term; it takes nearly a decade to get a plant built and running…if it can the permits.

Problem is, after Fukushima, nuclear is a hard sell…let alone the fact that there is no place to (safely) deposit spent fuel.

We use nuclear throughout the US. A lot of our submarines are nuclear powered. Fukushima, if I recall correctly, was outdated and there were warnings/red flags. As far as Chernobyl, (not mentioned, I know) well the Soviets never really built anything worth a damn except the AK 47

 

[Wannabewoodsman]

Anyone else see that documentary news piece about how environmentally destructive the mining of the minerals needed for the EV batteries? What I saw was a shocker, but I can't vouch for its authenticity, it having been an internet source, and likely as reliable as MSM news.

How about the videos of wind turbines leaking hydraulic oil? That's a load of irony too!

 

[Pitdogg2]

Problem is, after Fukushima, nuclear is a hard sell…let alone the fact that there is no place to (safely) deposit spent fuel.

All true, even before Fukushima many of the nuclear reactors had started storing spent fuel onsite as it had no place to go. The Yucca mountain thing, haven't heard nothing about that savior of the spent fuel repository in forever.

 

[Annihilator]

We will just jump to the mid 22nd century and use dialithium crystals……

 

[BreakingWind]

Wow! These prices are RIDICULOUS. The cheapest for a higher ethanol blend of fuel (88) is $4.39! What are the prices on your area

I just got a whole bunch of gas for $1.99 after eating the special at Taco Johns...

 

[Keystone19250]

Anyone else see that documentary news piece about how environmentally destructive the mining of the minerals needed for the EV batteries? What I saw was a shocker, but I can't vouch for its authenticity, it having been an internet source, and likely as reliable as MSM news.

 

[HansGruber]

We use nuclear throughout the US. A lot of our submarines are nuclear powered. Fukushima, if I recall correctly, was outdated and there were warnings/red flags. As far as Chernobyl, (not mentioned, I know) well the Soviets never really built anything worth a damn except the AK 47

All of our nuke plants in the US are old, many getting shut down. There hasn’t been a new nuke plant built since the early 1980’s.

They aren’t being replaced.

Fukushima wasn’t older than many of the plants currently operating in the US.

All true, even before Fukushima many of the nuclear reactors had started storing spent fuel onsite as it had no place to go. The Yucca mountain thing, haven't heard nothing about that savior of the spent fuel repository in forever.

IIRC, Yucca Mountain got challenged by the Native American tribes whose land it was built on, and they won. No storage.

 

[HansGruber]

Anyone else see that documentary news piece about how environmentally destructive the mining of the minerals needed for the EV batteries? What I saw was a shocker, but I can't vouch for its authenticity, it having been an internet source, and likely as reliable as MSM news.

Let’s talk about Deep Horizon.

Let’s talk about Exxon Valdez.

Let’s talk about dozens of other smaller spills that happen every year.

Let’s talk about what fracking does to groundwater.

While those lithium mines aren’t pretty I’d say they are still doing a whole lot less damage than oil is.

 

[shanneba]

Don't forget about natural oil seeps from the ground.

These perennial and continuous oil and gas seeps have been active on the northern edge of the Santa Barbara Channel for at least 500,000 years. The combined seeps in the field release about 40 tons of methane per day and about 19 tons of reactive organic gas (ethane, propane, butane and higher hydrocarbons); about twice the hydrocarbon air pollution released by all the cars and trucks in Santa Barbara County in 1990.

Coal Oil Point seep field

"Natural seeps in Southern California contribute about 5 million gallons of oil to the ocean annually, with wide year to year variation (NAS 2003). However, in the Coal Oil Point area alone, seep estimates range from 4,200 to 25,000 gallons of oil per day, or 1.5 to 9 million gallons annually."

Natural Oil Seeps in Southern California

 

[dad]

View attachment 28075

Outstanding Keystone. And done the way it should be for the people who just dont understand. With paper and crayons. And if you do a little digging the new green deal isnt really about the environment. Its about controlling the economy. And if anyone still doubts that ask al gore how much he made of an inconvenient truth. Mining of lithium does more damage to the environment than good. And then there will come a time to dispose of the batteries and that is also a huge problem.

 

[Wannabewoodsman]

Let’s talk about Deep Horizon.

Let’s talk about Exxon Valdez.

Let’s talk about dozens of other smaller spills that happen every year.

Let’s talk about what fracking does to groundwater.

While those lithium mines aren’t pretty I’d say they are still doing a whole lot less damage than oil is.

The minerals still require oil in order to be mined, transported, refined and whatever other processes are still required

 

[Bassbob]

the Soviets never really built anything worth a damn except the AK 47

Winged C vacuum tubes.
Svetlana 6550 Bs from the old St. Petersburg factory.
Makarov pistols.
If you’ve ever seen a Mig up close you’d be impressed.

 

[Bassbob]

Let’s talk about what fracking does to groundwater.

Let’s talk about it. You know, using facts not hyperbole. Let’s have some links to actual provable examples of fracking contaminating ground water.

If you oppose NG and natural gas pipelines you should put your money where your mouth is. Go outside and look at the riser coming up out of the ground below your gas meter. You’ll see a lock cock. Turn it off.

 

[HansGruber]

Let’s talk about it. You know, using facts not hyperbole. Let’s have some links to actual provable examples of fracking contaminating ground water.

If you oppose NG and natural gas pipelines you should put your money where your mouth is. Go outside and look at the riser coming up out of the ground below your gas meter. You’ll see a lock cock. Turn it off.

Eventually, I plan on it.

Replaced my gas water heater with an electric a couple years ago.

Again, you seem to think saying “we need to get away from it” means “we have to stop NOW”. That’s not realistic, and just makes you sound silly.

 

[Talyn]

Fracking takes place thousands of feet below the water tables. Based on fracturing depths and water use for ∼44,000 wells reported between 2010 and 2013, the average fracturing depth across the United States was 8,300 ft (∼2500 m).

The Depths of Hydraulic Fracturing and Accompanying Water Use Across the United States - PubMed

Reports highlight the safety of hydraulic fracturing for drinking water if it occurs "many hundreds of meters to kilometers underground". To our knowledge, however, no comprehensive analysis of hydraulic fracturing depths exists. Based on fracturing depths and water use for ∼44,000 wells...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Most household water wells range from 100 to 800 feet deep, but a few are over 1,000 feet deep. Well yields can be increased by fracturing the bedrock immediately around the drill hole and intercepted rock faults.

https://www.watersystemscouncil.org/download/wellcare_information_sheets/basic_well_information_sheets/DEPTH%20OF%20WELL_FINAL.pdf

Scientists agree: Fracking doesn't harm our water

Scientists and researchers from over two-dozen governmental organizations, universities, and nonprofits confirm fracking does not contaminate groundwater.

www.cred.org

BUT, well leaks, not fracking, are linked to fouled water.

Well Leaks, Not Fracking, Are Linked to Fouled Water (Published 2014)

The process of hydraulic fracturing, suspected by some environmentalists of letting natural gas get into aquifers, was not seen to blame for the pollution.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Talyn]

Fossil fuel, nuclear & hydro are considered high-density power generation sources of base-load electricity (the amount of power made available by an energy producer (such as a power plant) to meet fundamental demands by consumers). They generate large amounts of electricity upon demand within a relatively small area.

Solar and wind power are considered low-density power sources, meaning they rely on intermittent conditions in order to generate electricity, and require large areas to generate useful power levels. Wind and solar power have the drag of unreliability..

The Future of Energy: Why Power Density Matters

This is the first column in The Energy Transition series by Robert Wilson. This series, exclusive to theenergycollective.com, will take a critical look at the prospects of a transition away from fossil fuels, and promises...

energycentral.com

Base-load power generation is needed for large power consumers such as industrial plants, and when seasonal changes require large electrical demands.

Wind & solar are useful to supplement the base-load such as average residential use, except for high seasonal demands.

Elon Musk recently stated that in order to switch the US entirely over to electricity power generation would have to double over current rates. Currently, fossil fuel, nuclear & hydro (all bad according to certain parts of society) generates ~85-90% of all electricity, with the rest from solar & wind.

Plus, #1 - the oil companies are not suppressing grid improvements. I've seen power companies building new tech power lines in the west, and....

#2 - you can't run steel mill from a solar panel.

 

[BreakingWind]

Let’s talk about Deep Horizon.

Let’s talk about Exxon Valdez.

Let’s talk about dozens of other smaller spills that happen every year.

Let’s talk about what fracking does to groundwater.

While those lithium mines aren’t pretty I’d say they are still doing a whole lot less damage than oil is.

I respect your opinion and agree that those were and are terrible consequences of oil but you need to also figure the long term effects of those batteries beyond just the "mining" aspect. Such as the carbon footprint of creating and charging the batteries and the massive problems of disposing of the hazardous materials at the batteries end of life. Not to mention the additional batteries due to replacement at least once, if not twice during the life of the car.
Add to that the strain on the electrical grid, the range limitations, the difficulties and expense involved in repairs, the price of EVs in general and the fact that EVs are far from carbon neutral which is one of their selling points and I'm just not convinced. YMMV...