Katadin4570
Operator
That required some quick thinking and strategic planning on your part…I like it; however, I will not be joining you on a hunt in bear country…just saying…
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Is Bear Spray Better Than a Pistol?
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
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Kodiak Cowboy
Custom
Forgot to mention Skull measurements. Length + width = total skull size. For example 12 wide and 16 long would be a 28 inch bear. 30" to 31" is a world record class Coastal Brown Bear.Right on man! Good on ya!
This Kodiak was a young'n too. Also at three or four years old. Estimated weight was between 800-900 taken during the fall hunting season for Kodiak Brown Bear. At seven inches across the front pad. His front definitely wasn't as big as your bears paw! On Kodiak, rule of thumb is. What ever the pad measures across? Add an inch snd that's what the hide will square in feet. For example. This bears front pad was 7 inches across. His hide squared 8.3 foot.
View attachment 35974View attachment 35973
This bear was a three year old sub adult. Taken during the Spring hunting season for Kodiak Bear. A community nuance beer becoming a bigger problem every day. He was between 400-500 lbs. Probably around the 450 range. View attachment 35976
Front pad was six inches across. View attachment 35975
The hide squared seven foot exactly.
Six foot from nose to tail. Eight foot from front middle claw tip, to front middle claw tip. For an average of 7 foot.
View attachment 35977
For those that don't know? Thats how a bears size is measured. Any species of bear! With the exception of their weight measurement.
High Power magnum rifle highly recommend!
Recusant
Hellcat
You don't want to cross paths with those in either size.
FACT: Interior grizzly seem to be far more aggressive than their ocean coastal range brothers!
That's been documented and proven!
Kodiak Cowboy
Custom
Yeah that one's great!
I have that in a 8x10 framed out in my shop! 
That one along with another cartoon of a bear pick'n his teeth with a human leg bone while rubbing his belly.
The caption reads.
"I've been fed well eating Treadwell!"
Hammer67
Professional
Few things bring people out of the woodwork like a good "bear" thread!
I live on the edge of Grand Teton/Yellowstone National Parks. Pretty much every hike I go on in this area has the potential for bumping into a grizz (and/or several other things), and the population has grown steadily in recent years. Suffice to say the possibility is not remote here, by any means. I carry both bear spray and either a 10mm pistol or a large bore revolver. I hope never to have to use them, and I think it all starts with good behavior in bear country - just like in the frontcountry, the gun is a last resort, not a first resort. Continual situational awareness, announcing your presence, being aware of areas with limited visibility, etc. will all go a long way toward avoiding a surprise close-range encounter. The problem is that if you hunt, you are generally doing everything the opposite of what you should be doing in bear country - you're being quiet, hunting the wind, etc. and as a result, no surprise, many attacks happen to hunters in the Fall around here.
While a long gun is certainly going to be more effective, it the reality is that it isn't very practical for most hiking. A handgun, no matter the caliber, is a compromise, pure and simple. If I'm in a vehicle camp somewhere in bear country, then I have a "camp rifle" with a light mounted on it within reach.
For those truly interested in the subject, this link is worth a read. It's an interview with Tom Smith, who authored two of the most frequently cited studies on bear spray efficacy and firearms efficacy. And as Smith explains in this article, the two studies were never meant to be compared to each other, and many institutions and individuals over the years have made exactly that mistake, and come to the wrong conclusions:
www.outsideonline.com
I live on the edge of Grand Teton/Yellowstone National Parks. Pretty much every hike I go on in this area has the potential for bumping into a grizz (and/or several other things), and the population has grown steadily in recent years. Suffice to say the possibility is not remote here, by any means. I carry both bear spray and either a 10mm pistol or a large bore revolver. I hope never to have to use them, and I think it all starts with good behavior in bear country - just like in the frontcountry, the gun is a last resort, not a first resort. Continual situational awareness, announcing your presence, being aware of areas with limited visibility, etc. will all go a long way toward avoiding a surprise close-range encounter. The problem is that if you hunt, you are generally doing everything the opposite of what you should be doing in bear country - you're being quiet, hunting the wind, etc. and as a result, no surprise, many attacks happen to hunters in the Fall around here.
While a long gun is certainly going to be more effective, it the reality is that it isn't very practical for most hiking. A handgun, no matter the caliber, is a compromise, pure and simple. If I'm in a vehicle camp somewhere in bear country, then I have a "camp rifle" with a light mounted on it within reach.
For those truly interested in the subject, this link is worth a read. It's an interview with Tom Smith, who authored two of the most frequently cited studies on bear spray efficacy and firearms efficacy. And as Smith explains in this article, the two studies were never meant to be compared to each other, and many institutions and individuals over the years have made exactly that mistake, and come to the wrong conclusions:
Does Bear Spray Work?
The science is clear, right? Not so fast, according to, well, science.
www.outsideonline.com
Katadin4570
Operator
Excellent article by Tom Smith! Thanks for sharing it with us. I really appreciate his conclusion about packing a firearm because it has application for any potentially dangerous encounter with 4 or 2 legged predators. If you train frequently for profiency with a firearm under self-imposed stress (such as timed competitive or instructional venues) and become proficient, then by all means pack a your firearm with you. But if not, pick up a can of pepper spray and pack that in, or…find a hobby other than hiking in bear country.
Kodiak Cowboy
Custom
When I do pack a pistol in the brush. This is the one. My 629 Classic loaded with Alaska Backpacker Ammo Co's 320gr hard cast. The nickel coated case is Federal Premiums 300gr Hard cast
Id really like an X frame in 460 S&W with a six inch barrel. The only thing stopping me from getting one is ammo availability. At least until I learn to hand load anyway.
Id really like an X frame in 460 S&W with a six inch barrel.
The only thing stopping me from getting one is ammo availability. At least until I learn to hand load anyway.
Katadin4570
Operator
Nice heater…! Yes sir, handloading has been a distinct advantage for me personally, particularly now and during the O’bama reign. That is, IF you can find or have on hand the components necessary to produce the ammo. I started reloading in my early 20’s (quite some time ago) and casting in my late 20’s so that I could afford to shoot more. At that time, it was far cheaper to handload. Today, I can purchase 9mm for about the same as it costs me to produce it, but…in all other calibers, particularly the big bores, the savings realized are HUGE! For example, 480 Ruger, 454 Casull, 45 Colt, and 44 Magnum can be reloaded for ~ 75-80% less than the cost of factory ammo, and then you have custom ammo like Buffalo Bore where the difference is astronomical. So, I always encourage folks that have the time to pursue… and the interest in…this hobby to go for it! It’s worth thinking about…
Kodiak Cowboy
Custom
This is what I carry in thick bear country with thick cover. Even when not hunting. In fact most of time. Im just hiking! If needed? Its the tool designed to do the job best as possible.
Ruger M-77 Hawkeye
Alaska Guide model in .416
Express Sights
Controlled feed
A 45-70 next to a .416 Ruger loaded with Hornady's 400gr DGX (Dangerous Game Expanding)
"BRING ENOUGH GUN"
Ruger M-77 Hawkeye
Alaska Guide model in .416
Express Sights
Controlled feed
A 45-70 next to a .416 Ruger loaded with Hornady's 400gr DGX (Dangerous Game Expanding)
"BRING ENOUGH GUN"
PeteinAlaska
Operator
Nice! Did you get an ear to muzzle to ear measure?Right on man! Good on ya!
This Kodiak was a young'n too. Also at three or four years old. Estimated weight was between 800-900 taken during the fall hunting season for Kodiak Brown Bear. At seven inches across the front pad. His front definitely wasn't as big as your bears paw! On Kodiak, rule of thumb is. What ever the pad measures across? Add an inch snd that's what the hide will square in feet. For example. This bears front pad was 7 inches across. His hide squared 8.3 foot.
View attachment 35974View attachment 35973
This bear was a three year old sub adult. Taken during the Spring hunting season for Kodiak Bear. A community nuance beer becoming a bigger problem every day. He was between 400-500 lbs. Probably around the 450 range. View attachment 35976
Front pad was six inches across. View attachment 35975
The hide squared seven foot exactly.
Six foot from nose to tail. Eight foot from front middle claw tip, to front middle claw tip. For an average of 7 foot.
View attachment 35977
For those that don't know? Thats how a bears size is measured. Any species of bear! With the exception of their weight measurement.
Kodiak Cowboy
Custom
No, never heard of that measurement? Inform me please!
Katadin4570
Operator
Mercy!! Had never seen a side-by-side comparison of these two cartridges...The 45-70 is a long time favorite of mine not only for the history behind it, but its efficacy. And, I have a great deal of respect for its bark with modern loads, 300 grainers at 2200 fps. How does the 416 compare in recoil and accuracy?
Kodiak Cowboy
Custom
First let me say. I love the 45-70 for stopping a dangerously aggressive bear. However, only if loaded with moderately hot, BUT SAFE loads seated with 400gr hard cast and no further than,
lets say 50yds. As far as stopping a charge, your likely not going to be firing further than that anyway. I've got some Alaska Backpacker Ammo in 400gr hard cast. They have waaaay more snort than a load like a federal classic 400gr If you ever get a chance to fire the two loads in 45-70 that I just mentioned above? One after the other? Load the ABA hard cast into the magazine first then load the Fed classic in the magazine, so you're "firing" the Fed classic first. You'll notice a substantial amount of more recoil in the ABA load. However, I'm not bothered by recoil Some people are terrified of firing a 300WM!My 416 with the quick attach/detach break mounted on the rifle tames recoil by 25%-30% Id say and feels like a 375 H&H, but is deafening loud! I don't even use it anymore. Without the break? The .416 will definitely get your attention,
But its not punishing and extremely uncomfortable like the 378 or 460 WBM. Its not even I would call painful. Like I said. It'll get your attention.Accuracy? Loaded with a 350 Grain Barnes TTSX the .416 definitely has accuracy capabilities out to 300 maybe more with a bit of practice, However, Ammo cost is substantial at $120-$150 a box, but I didn't buy it to shoot 300yrds. I don't see myself every firing it at anything over 100. Its a "Dangerous Game" stoping gun.
Hope all this info helps!
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Kodiak Cowboy
Custom
Wise policy! Unfortunately that's not possible here on the Island if one is a serious outdoorsman. Simply due to our Brown Bear population. Im not saying its not possible to never have to shoot a bear here. Its just not really possible to never put yourself in a situation where you "may" have to shoot a bear here.
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Katadin4570
Operator
I’m a huge fan of the 45-70 loaded with 400 grain lead loads at moderate velocities. It is my favorite load in the Encore Katadin residing at my place. A while back, a friend of mine was getting out of the 45-70 business and sold me 100+ boxed rounds of Winchester’s 300 grain express hunting loads. These things kick my butt!! They are very accurate loads, but butt kickers… The Encore platform itself may be part of the issue, not sure. I’m a handloader and bullet caster, I like to plink at yonder targets with the 45-70 and my historic loads, but not these Winchesters…they do not make for fun in long sessions at the bench unless one’s wants to risk a detached retina I’m thinkingFirst let me say. I love the 45-70 for stopping a dangerously aggressive bear. However, only if loaded with moderately hot, BUT SAFE loads seated with 400gr hard cast and no further than,
My 416 with the quick attach/detach break mounted on the rifle tames recoil by 25%-30% Id say and feels like a 375 H&H, but is deafening loud! I don't even use it anymore. Without the break? The .416 will definitely get your attention,
Accuracy? Loaded with a 350 Grain Barnes TTSX the .416 definitely has accuracy capabilities out to 300 maybe more with a bit of practice, However, Ammo cost is substantial at $120-$150 a box, but I didn't buy it to shoot 300yrds. I don't see myself every firing it at anything over 100. Its a "Dangerous Game" stoping gun.
Hope all this info helps!
.Txbobcat62
Operator
I think the best bear spray would be the .44 magnum.
Hammer67
Professional
Assuming one has regularly practiced with it, under realistic stress and movement training, and is still capable of being reasonably accurate with it.