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Pistol Brace Rule Drops

Bassbob said:
I read this "Final rule" and it is no less confusing than all the other gibberish the ATF has put out regarding Ar pistol/ SBR.

So if anyone was able to read this and answer a simple question for me that'd be great.

If you have an AR pistol, with an optic, no brace just a foam pad on the buffer, a sling mounted on an endplate QD and a handstop is this still a pistol or is it some F'ed up way an SBR ?

Asking for a friend.
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Nope. Pistol.
 
Bassbob said:
I read this "Final rule" and it is no less confusing than all the other gibberish the ATF has put out regarding Ar pistol/ SBR.

So if anyone was able to read this and answer a simple question for me that'd be great.

If you have an AR pistol, with an optic, no brace just a foam pad on the buffer, a sling mounted on an endplate QD and a handstop is this still a pistol or is it some F'ed up way an SBR ?

Asking for a friend.
Click to expand...
Nope. Pistol
10mmLife said:
Here's something to ponder if you're thinking of taking advantage of the pistol brace ruling for the waived tax stamp to classify your firearm as an SBR.

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This is complete nonsense. The amount of barstool lawyers coming up with crap like this as clickbait is out of control. As of now this is not even in play and when it does end up in play you’ll have four months to file/take off the brace/SBR the gun. In that time there will be endless lawsuits filed against this. You can’t be prosecuted for something that wasn’t against the law when you did it. This isn’t Minority Report. There isn’t a Department of Future Crime.
 
10mmLife said:
Here's something to ponder if you're thinking of taking advantage of the pistol brace ruling for the waived tax stamp to classify your firearm as an SBR.

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Yep, it's all a legally dubious cluster.

What you lawfully own and bought is not retroactively illegal without a congress and compensation.

There will be zero federal prosecutors that go after the 10 to 40 million citizens, it will just further neuter the ATF in court.
 
SimonRL said:
Nope. Pistol.
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To make things even a little more interesting, the OAL of my non braced 10.5" AR "Pistol" is exactly 26 1/4" from the base of the tube to the end of the muzzle device So unless I am wrong, this is technically not even a pistol, it's a "Firearm". Does that sound correct ?
 
Belt Fed said:
WOW, just WOW, that made my mind up what i will do. i was planning on it if it was free, but not now.
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I think anyone who registers their AR pistols is making a huge mistake. Really I think all y'all who have registered SBRs made a mistake, but this one is even more dubious since it seem to me to be the ATF's plan from jump to get a giant list of names and addresses of people who own these things.

So you bought a stripped lower and put a 10" barrel on it. The government has no idea if you made a pistol or a rifle. Take their "Free registration" offer and now they know. They also have pictures and the whole 5 yards to go along with it.
 
Those that are planning on doing the Form 1, keep in mind. Once your application is active it has to be approved in 88 days. If it is not, then it is an automatic denial and now you've given the ATF the evidence that you are in possession of an illegal SBR. That's 10 years $250,000 per offense.

They're not going to say "oopsies, our bad"
 
Boomturtle said:
Those that are planning on doing the Form 1, keep in mind. Once your application is active it has to be approved in 88 days. If it is not, then it is an automatic denial and now you've given the ATF the evidence that you are in possession of an illegal SBR. That's 10 years $250,000 per offense.

They're not going to say "oopsies, our bad"
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Not entirely true. The 88 days start from when the background check is run, not necessarily from the day you submit. This really only comes into play if there is some unresolved or unclear issues in someone’s background that the FBI can’t get an answer from the local authorities about. I know, because I’ve been through it.
 
It also holds true for any 4473 or eForm 4 submission. This is not some special thing they came up with just for the brace “amnesty”.
 
Bottom line, don’t play this game between the ATF and your lawfully bought and owned firearms. Let’s the courts rebuke them and you just stay out of it all.
 
uspatriot1960 said:
It also holds true for any 4473 or eForm 4 submission. This is not some special thing they came up with just for the brace “amnesty”.
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Not exactly. I don't know about form 1 or form 4 or whatever you guys fill out to register your stuff with the feds, but a 4473 by law has to be discarded by the government after 88 days. As in there is to be no paper trail or data record of the transaction. Now we all know that's probaby not happening, but it's the law. So if the feds don't get back to you on your BGC for a 4473, after 3 days the FFL can sell it to you if they want, but they don't have to. And after 88 days it gets discarded and is NOT an automatic denial.
 
Bassbob said:
Not exactly. I don't know about form 1 or form 4 or whatever you guys fill out to register your stuff with the feds, but a 4473 by law has to be discarded by the government after 88 days. As in there is to be no paper trail or data record of the transaction. Now we all know that's probaby not happening, but it's the law. So if the feds don't get back to you on your BGC for a 4473, after 3 days the FFL can sell it to you if they want, but they don't have to. And after 88 days it gets discarded and is NOT an automatic denial.
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That may well be the case, I know that after 3days you can take possession of your title 1 firearm. I didn’t know FFLs discarded 4473 forms after 88 days. Never heard that. But the 88 day thing applies to all NFA items, whether it’s a Form 1 for SBR or a Form 4 for suppressors. My overall point is that the 88 day thing was not something invented for this new “rule” and that it doesn’t start until the BGC is run.
 
uspatriot1960 said:
That may well be the case, I know that after 3days you can take possession of your title 1 firearm. I didn’t know FFLs discarded 4473 forms after 88 days. Never heard that. But the 88 day thing applies to all NFA items, whether it’s a Form 1 for SBR or a Form 4 for suppressors. My overall point is that the 88 day thing was not something invented for this new “rule” and that it doesn’t start until the BGC is run.
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They don't. 4473 has to be kept by the FFL for 20 years ( or I think now the feds changed the law and it is forever) and if you go out of business those records have to be given to the ATF. Meaning that since it is now forever an FFL has to retain those 4473s, eventually the ATF will have records of every gun sold through a dealer. Which is ridiculously unconstitutional.

What gets thrown out after 88 days is the transaction record via the NICS check.
 
TacticalPirate said:
Bottom line, don’t play this game between the ATF and your lawfully bought and owned firearms. Lets the courts rebuke them and you just stay out of it all.
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As I said earlier, I won’t register my pistol anytime soon. But, unless something happens during the first 2 or 3 months after publication, I’ll register. Just don’t feel like spending the next 10 years in prison. Right now, braced pistols are still legal. And they will be for 120 days after publication of the rule. No need to rush into anything.
 
Bassbob said:
They don't. 4473 has to be kept by the FFL for 20 years ( or I think now the feds changed the law and it is forever) and if you go out of business those records have to be given to the ATF. Meaning that since it is now forever an FFL has to retain those 4473s, eventually the ATF will have records of every gun sold through a dealer. Which is ridiculously unconstitutional.

What gets thrown out after 88 days is the transaction record via the NICS check.
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Ahhhhh. Ok. Makes sense.
 
uspatriot1960 said:
As I said earlier, I won’t register my pistol anytime soon. But, unless something happens during the first 2 or 3 months after publication, I’ll register. Just don’t feel like spending the next 10 years in prison. Right now, braced pistols are still legal. And they will be for 120 days after publication of the rule. No need to rush into anything.
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Even if I liked braces on AR pistols ( which I don't) I would never register it. I'd remove the brace.
 
Bassbob said:
They don't. 4473 has to be kept by the FFL for 20 years ( or I think now the feds changed the law and it is forever) and if you go out of business those records have to be given to the ATF. Meaning that since it is now forever an FFL has to retain those 4473s, eventually the ATF will have records of every gun sold through a dealer. Which is ridiculously unconstitutional.

What gets thrown out after 88 days is the transaction record via the NICS check.
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If an FFL doesn't renew their license all 4473s go to BATFE.
 
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