testtest

Romeo zero on a Hellcat

Yes but I should follow up saying I returned it and got most of my money back. The battery only lasted about a month and a half. I called and spoke to customer service and they said the battery life if set on a higher setting would last about 1-1/2 -2 months. They said in order to get the advertised house. The sight would have to not be turned on. I am not recommending this site for a LTC gun. Or if you don’t have small fingers to adjust the light brightness.

Above was a response earlier in this thread on the RZ cowitnessing. Mine cowitnesses very well. I can see the front sight and have my "dot" sitting right above it.
In regard to the battery time, here is my experiance.
The battery that came with my RZ lasted about one month. This is with the default settings as they were from the packaging. I bought a couple Duracell batteries and replaced the dead one and left the settings as they were. That battery is still in it, nearly 8 months ago and it is very bright. And I carry my Hellcat every single day.
The battery issue is with the battery that came with the Romeo Zero. I'm not saying that mine won't die tomorrow but the batteries Sieg bought for it, at least the original shipments, had to have been bad or old or both. I have heard of three others who had a month or less of battery life after their install of the RZ. And Shawn's comments in this thread make four. Don't give up on these because of the factory original battery life. I bought a Sentinel because I was sure the RZ was going to be problematic. It has been anything but! And that after thousands of shots. My regret is that I spent 250 bucks on a Sentinel that's sitting in my safe.
 
ShaunR said:
Is there anyone here that has mounted a Romeo zero on a Hellcat yet? The two sets of screws Sig sent are both a little long. Just wondering if I’m doing something wrong.
thanks,
Shaun
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I just used my dremel with a metal cut-off wheel and took off the bottom 4 threads of the bolts. Probably didn't need to but I ran the bolts through a die afterwards, put a drop of blue thread locker on them and tightened them down. And after shooting a pistol with an optic attached to the slide, I can understand why some red dots just can't take the abuse. They get beat to ****. Especially at the range. Cycling over and over taking every bit as much recoil as me. Intense heating and cooling. The optics world has its work cut out for them.
 
ShaunR said:
You are absolutely correct. The Romeo comes with two pairs of bolts. One pair for the sig365 that are M3.5 X0.5 , and another set for "certain non-sig pistols" that are M4 X0.7. The M4X0.7 were to long, so I took them down to .385 and they work great.
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How much torque on the M4 screws anyone? Please (and Thanks;-)!
 
I used 9 in/lbs and blue loctite on mine. (near the bottom of the Installation section of the manual). I have thousands of rounds through mine with no issues.
Make sure you have taken off enough screw length first. Many think they the need to put the screws down farther when they are really bottoming out. Just use the loctite and go 9 in/lbs and make damn sure you have good screw contact between the tip and the screw head once you know you have removed enough thread if you are using the M4's that came with it!
 
BooVuc said:
I used 9 in/lbs and blue loctite on mine. (near the bottom of the Installation section of the manual). I have thousands of rounds through mine with no issues.
Make sure you have taken off enough screw length first. Many think they the need to put the screws down farther when they are really bottoming out. Just use the loctite and go 9 in/lbs and make damn sure you have good screw contact between the tip and the screw head once you know you have removed enough thread if you are using the M4's that came with it!
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Thanks for the info. I really wanted to get this installation right, since some alterations (shortening the M4 screws) were needed ti mount the optic. I did that by gripping each screw, just above the threads, with a pair of needle nose pliers and CAREFULLY grinding about two threads off of each screw. Then, I used a M4x0.75 die to ensure the remaining treads were true. The optic is now mounted on my Hellcat and, thanks to your help, is now ready for the range! Again, thanks a million!! MM
 
You are most welcome. Two things come to mind from my experiance with the RZ on the Hellcat.
The battery that came with the unit lasted only one month. The store bought battery I replaced it with at Walmart has been in for 8 months and is going strong. The one you bought is most likely fresh and the OEM battery supplier gave Sig good fresh stock hopefully.
When I shot mine, I knew my sights were dead on so I set my Red Dot to ride just over my front sight shooting at 30 feet. If this gun is very knew to you and you find yourself shooting low and left as a right-handed shooter, just tighten your grip in small increments. You'll notice your shot placement shift. Just don't move the red dot to the POI. Trust the iron sights on the gun. You want both the red dot and the sights to line up. This is a must to keep the pistol able to co-witness in the event the red dot fails when you absolutely need it. And I hope nobody ever has to absolutely need it!
Good Luck!
 
MacGuyVR said:
Thanks for the info. I really wanted to get this installation right, since some alterations (shortening the M4 screws) were needed ti mount the optic. I did that by gripping each screw, just above the threads, with a pair of needle nose pliers and CAREFULLY grinding about two threads off of each screw. Then, I used a M4x0.75 die to ensure the remaining treads were true. The optic is now mounted on my Hellcat and, thanks to your help, is now ready for the range! Again, thanks a million!! MM
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On shortening bolts? Another trick is to thread same size nut onto bolt before cutting bolt. (Nut also gives better handhold to bolt while cutting it in vise too.) After cut, file off any burrs, unthreading nut chases any unplaced screw thread. Lot quicker than die work and easier doing.
 
M4 7mm steel screws work fine if they are round head or cap socket heads. The Romeo Zero screws are 7mm but are countersink profile so they are flush with the top of the sight housing. The countersink depth is the amount by which they are too long for the Hellcat. Grinding them down ought to work, 1-1.5mm.
 
BobM said:
On shortening bolts? Another trick is to thread same size nut onto bolt before cutting bolt. (Nut also gives better handhold to bolt while cutting it in vise too.) After cut, file off any burrs, unthreading nut chases any unplaced screw thread. Lot quicker than die work and easier doing.
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Yeah you’re right. Thanks. Unfortunately, I just couldn’t find the correct size/thread nut. Good info & thanks again!
 
MacGuyVR said:
Yeah you’re right. Thanks. Unfortunately, I just couldn’t find the correct size/thread nut. Good info & thanks again!
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More than welcome. Jewelers saw also helps on small parts. (Like a small hacksaw.) Can never have enough tools!
 

Question for anyone,

My LGS (where I bought the RomeZero at the same time I was buying a new Hellcat - after they told me it would fit the Hellcat), did not tell me the supplied M4 screws did not fit ( or either they didn't know).

So, researched a bit, read various related threads here on this forum, and decided I would be better off getting the Swampfox Sentinel. But, the LGS told me that won't accept returns on optics.

After explaining the problem was told oh yeaf, they have been hearing reports about that ... no problem ... our gun smith can fix that right up for you ...he's out today but call and leave a message for him.

Week passes by and he never returns a call. Walk back in and told he's been on vacation, be back in another 2 weeks.

2 weeks later called again, said message was given, still no call back, so I finally go in on a day he is there, and gun smith tells me with all the craziness going on lately and number of guns purchased lately etc ... there would be about a 2 month backlog ...that I could leave my Hellcat there and eventually he would get to it.

Obviously I wasn't going to leave my newly purchased gun there for 2 months.

Not being good with hand tools/no dremel etc ... I decided to buy that hex head bolts reccomended earlier in this thread. They seem to fit just right, and although the large heads do protrude a little, they are off to the sides and might actually help in centering the front sight into the center of the rear sights.

But my issue is that I still can't fully co-witness. I've read some saying they can fully co-witness and others saying they can't.

Should I be able to fully co-witness on the Hellcat with the RomeoZero, or not? If yes, then perhaps I have a defecive optic?

Or have it installed imcorrectly?

Or do they just not 100% co-witness?

Here are 2 pics I took, the first showing to fully see the "ball" of the front sight, it is too high or above being centered into the "U" or the rear sight.

The 2nd photo shows where I would estimate the front sight should be within the "U" of the rear sight ...but can now only see about half of the front sight. Seems imperfect to me ... as I probably would need to only see the top third of the front sight to really have it centered perfectly in the rear sight.

I've not zeroed or shot with the optic yet, and that is the main goal ...so I suppose the co-witness issue could just be a minor "adjustment" in sighting I'd have to learn to account for should the optic fail .... but still ... supposedly the RomeoZero was advertised as allowing co-witness on the Hellcat and overall I am disappointed.

For that reason and the run-around with the screws not fitting etc ... I would have expected my LGS to let me return the optic ...

Anyhow ... who all has really acheived a 100% co-witness and who hasn't?

1607981332345.png


1607981348260.png
 
After a lot of reading, that sight picture is why I haven’t bought the Romeo Zero. The only RDS I know of that 100% cowitnesses (100% sight picture), are the Shield SMSC & RMSC. I’m holding out to get one of them. I’ve heard a lot of people have mounted the Romeo Zero and are fine with it, but it’s not for me.
 
uspatriot1960 said:
After a lot of reading, that sight picture is why I haven’t bought the Romeo Zero. The only RDS I know of that 100% cowitnesses (100% sight picture), are the Shield SMSC & RMSC. I’m holding out to get one of them. I’ve heard a lot of people have mounted the Romeo Zero and are fine with it, but it’s not for me.
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Yes,

I was led to believe that the RomeoZero would allow 100% view of the front sight as well, to allow a true co-witness.
I'm assuming those others that post saying they can co-witness, are saying that because they at least see part of the front sight ... unless for some reason some of the RZ sights do allow co-witness and some don't (meaning that is a wide variation in how each unit is built).

I was also considering the Swampfox Sentinel, but I think I read in some other thread that they don't 100% co-witness either.

Trying to figure out if either the Holosun 407 or 507 co-witness ...but seems you have to mill down the posts on slide cut-away ...or buy some adpater plates ....

I was shying away from the SMSc and RMRc as I thought I read some reviews or posts that they aren't that great or something ...unless I'mjust getting all the info about the different RDS confused.

Guess I'll post my RZ on Craig's List or someplace and try to get some of my money back.
 
Redleg99 said:
Yes,

I was led to believe that the RomeoZero would allow 100% view of the front sight as well, to allow a true co-witness.
I'm assuming those others that post saying they can co-witness, are saying that because they at least see part of the front sight ... unless for some reason some of the RZ sights do allow co-witness and some don't (meaning that is a wide variation in how each unit is built).

I was also considering the Swampfox Sentinel, but I think I read in some other thread that they don't 100% co-witness either.

Trying to figure out if either the Holosun 407 or 507 co-witness ...but seems you have to mill down the posts on slide cut-away ...or buy some adpater plates ....

I was shying away from the SMSc and RMRc as I thought I read some reviews or posts that they aren't that great or something ...unless I'mjust getting all the info about the different RDS confused.

Guess I'll post my RZ on Craig's List or someplace and try to get some of my money back.
Click to expand...

sorry that did not work out. I don’t have my RZon my hellcat so can’t see it for myself, but the range time I had with it on my hellcat seemed to suffice. I get it though. If you want 100% then that is what you want! I don’t think any other sight besides shield will do that but I have not seen it.

for what it is worth change the battery in theRZto a new brand name (one itcame with is garbage). Mine has been going strong for a while now I can’t remember how long it’s been on. Dots been good to me in my use personally.

good luck. Hope it works out.
 
Go here to see an image of the differences in co-witnessing. I'm almost sure the RMSc and SMSc are the only red dot sights that will 100% co-witness, although I seem to remember one additional one from a couple months ago ..... sorry, can't remember what it was.

I personally use the SMSc on my Hellcat and love it. !00% co-witness, no 'smithing' needed to mount, and looks good too. But check out this link before you decide. And to be sure, I have never seen any Romeo Zero co-witness 100%. That's not to say there's not one out there somewhere since there have been more than one poster on here to swear theirs does. But so far, I've just not seen it.

Good luck! (y)

 
Just a heads up - but with an optic you don't want 100% cowitness - you want lower 1/3 cowitness. It's a preference thing for sure - but generally speaking you're giving the dot more real estate in the top of the window to lift and return. If the dot's not on the screen with lower 1/3rd it means it's low. The advantage of the sight is it gives you your point of aim even if the sights aren't lined up. Truth told - Irons forward would be better than irons rear.
 
jumpinjoe said:
Go here to see an image of the differences in co-witnessing. I'm almost sure the RMSc and SMSc are the only red dot sights that will 100% co-witness, although I seem to remember one additional one from a couple months ago ..... sorry, can't remember what it was.

I personally use the SMSc on my Hellcat and love it. !00% co-witness, no 'smithing' needed to mount, and looks good too. But check out this link before you decide. And to be sure, I have never seen any Romeo Zero co-witness 100%. That's not to say there's not one out there somewhere since there have been more than one poster on here to swear theirs does. But so far, I've just not seen it.

Good luck! (y)

Click to expand...

I think we have different understanding or definition of "co-witness" ... I'm relatively new to handguns (always had a rifle all my life, but have had my Hellcat just a few months) ... so I'm probably using the term incorrectly ... but what I'm talking about is being able to see the entire front sight post and the rear U-notch sight in case the RMR ever fails.

That was my understanding of co-witness ...that should the Red dot Sight ever fail and you don't see the red dot to use for aiming ....that as a backup you could still be able to see through the lens and see the iron sights and use them as you normally would.

For me, that also means that I should be able to use the iron sights through the RMR lens "exactly" how I would use the iron sights if the RMR was not installed ....meaning I should see the entire "ball" of the front sight and should be able to "drop it into the bucket" of the rear U-notch sight.

The issue I'm describing, with the RomeoZero ...is that I cannot see the entire front iron sight ...through the lens of the RomeoZero .... that the body of the RMR blocks my view of the front sight ...that when I try to sight in or aim using the iron sights looking through the RMR lens ... I cannot drop the ball of the front sight fully into the bucket of the rear sight ...before I start losing sight of the front sight.

The Shield SMSc and RMSc optics ... I have just recently learned ... have a notch or channel in the body if their RMR's ... that allows you to see the entire front sight even when aligning it fully down into the bucket of the rear sight ...
...and this is what I was calling 100% co-witness ....

As it stands now with the RomeoZero ... should the optic fail ... I would not be able to use the iron sight to aim in the same fashion as I can if the optic was not there ....

I can't fully align the front sight down into the reau U notch ... I start losnig sight if it ...and that is why I commented that I would have to "estimate" my point of aim if I had to co-witness.

There was another post right after yours ... where ther person talking about abosolute co-witness versus one-third co-witness ...and even the link you supplied ... all seem to talk about right sights ... that appears to be an image of AR-15 sights ....

Here is an article I found, and it says normally co-witnessing was a rifle term ...but can apply to handguns as well ... and ion that article ...and in the image you supplied .... if you look closely ... even in the example of one-third co-witness ... you can still see the entire front sight and the rear sight ... they are just at the lower 1/3 of the lens viewing area ...

... I agree or can understand why you would want to co-witness at the lower 1/3 of the lens area ... that is actually what I was hoping for ... and seems to make sense ... you want the red dot in the center and the iron sights "out of the way" .... but if you had to fallback on rely on the iron sights, you can pull your line of sight up and use the iron sights ...

Go back and look at the 2 images I posted ... in the first, to fully see the "ball" of the front sight, if I had to use the iron sights ... you can see the front post is way to high and not in the bucket and all my shots would be high.

When I try to lower center the "ball" of the front sight down into the U-notch bucket (as is how one should use these particular iron sights), before I'm able to do that I start losing sight of the ball because of the body of the RMR (the 2nd image I posted).

So, my complaints are the run-around I got with trying to install the optic as the supplied screws did not work as is ...and the LGS led me to believe they would ....and second ...that I was told you could co-witness with the RomeoZero .... which according to my definition of co-witness ... you can't with the RomeoZero ... but you can with the Sheild RMR's ... and also the JPoint I think.

Here is the link to that article on co-witness ... and in both examples of an "absolute" and "1/3" co-witness ... you can still see the entire front sight.

www.pewpewtactical.com

Co-Witness Sights: Absolute and Lower 1/3 [Ultimate Guide]

What's a co-witness sight with a red dot? What's the difference from absolute vs lower one-thirds co-witness? And how to do you zero a co-witnessed optic?
www.pewpewtactical.com www.pewpewtactical.com
 
rushrush73 said:
Took a pic of my post, hopefully this helps. Had the same issue. View attachment 7826
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This is the post, or information I used to go buy the same types of hex-head screws to use in place of the ones that came with the RomeoZero.

After a couple months of the run-around from the LGS where I bought the optic, and refusing to give me a refund and sayying I would have to leave my Hellcat with them a couple of months if I wanted their gunsmith to mill down the screws and mount it ... I finally decided to go to Home Depot and pick these up and try them out.

As advertised, they seem to fit perfectly.

I also had a hard time finding a measuring tape or measuring stick etc ... that had a metric scale on them ... and my eyes aren't good enough to distinguish 0.095" on a tape measure.

That was yet another setback or delay for me ... actually had the hex-head screws a few weeks ... then one day walking around in Walmart ... I pass by the aisle with the sewing needles, thread, etc .. and there it was ... for $1.47 a tiny measuring stick wtih a metric scale and even a "slider" to allow me to make precise measurements. It is called a "sewing and knitting guage", you will see a partial image of it in the 2 photo's I'll attach.

I'm attaching 2 photo's I took, to help out anyone else that needs a visual of how the supplied screws with the RomeoZero are a tad too long, and how they compare with the above mentioned hex-head screws.

The first image shows the hex-head screw on the lefthand side, and the supplied screw with the RomeoZero on the righthand side ...and you can see the hex-head screw is just a tad bit shorter ...

In the second image, I'm measuring how far the hex-head screw extends through the base of the RomeoZero ... and it is exactly 2.4 or 2.5 mm .... just what the Hellcat manual specifies.

1608095641244.png



1608095684836.png


The slider is not exactly at the number 3 ... and the screw is not 100% all the way through the base ... as I was holding the slider against the bottom of the screw ...it pushed through just a smidge ... but I had 1 hand holding the ruler and 1 had on the camera and didn't have another to hold the screw in tight ... but it sticks out exactly 2.4 mm ...
 
jumpinjoe said:
Go here to see an image of the differences in co-witnessing. I'm almost sure the RMSc and SMSc are the only red dot sights that will 100% co-witness, although I seem to remember one additional one from a couple months ago ..... sorry, can't remember what it was.

I personally use the SMSc on my Hellcat and love it. !00% co-witness, no 'smithing' needed to mount, and looks good too. But check out this link before you decide. And to be sure, I have never seen any Romeo Zero co-witness 100%. That's not to say there's not one out there somewhere since there have been more than one poster on here to swear theirs does. But so far, I've just not seen it.

Good luck! (y)

Click to expand...
jumpinjoe- That 3rd optic for the Hellcat is the JP Enterprises J-Point which is almost identical to the Shield SMSc except for the reticle which has an outer circle around the dot. I put the Shield RMSc on mine and and I'm very happy with it.
 
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