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Saint Victor AR-15 Pistols are now SBRs?

MrTFranklin

MrTFranklin

Alpha
First time post, long time reader!

I purchased the SAINT® VICTOR .300 BLK AR-15 PISTOL last year. After the ATF letter, I’m confused if I need to purchase a SBR stamp or if I can modify it to still be legal according to the ATF. For reference, mine is still stock, with the exception for Sig Sauer Romeo red dot. All the other specs are the same (SBA3 brace, 9” barrel, etc.) All of the specs can be found here:

https://springfield-armory.com/sain...-15-pistols/saint-victor-300-blk-ar-15-pistol

If I change out the SBA3 to a GearHead Tailhook Brace Mod 1 and Buffer Tube, would I still be afoul of the current rules?

https://store.springfield-armory.com/gear-head-works-tailhook-brace-mod-1-w-buffer-tube/

I did some research on filling out a Form 1 for an SBR and found this to be. a great resource:

https://www.ar-15lowerreceivers.com/80-lower-news/how-to-file-atf-form-1-for-an-sbr/

However, I would rather not purchase an SBR stamp because 1) I’d rather not send $200 to the gov’t and 2) my location is…how can I say…not AR-15 friendly from a legal standpoint. I don’t think I can walk into my local sheriff’s office to provide a copy of my Form 1 and walk out without handcuffs.

I bought the firearm legally last year and though I can legally purchase the firearms in my state, I cannot possess it in my local jurisdiction. Technically, I could possess this pistol variant at the time of the purchase, but I’m not going to split hairs as they arraign me when I walk in with a Form 1.
 
Right now, it is legal. There was a proposed "pistol brace ban" that the ATF put out and was supposed to go into effect in August. However, I have heard that it was put off until at least December. If they put it into effect then, there will be a 120 period until it actually goes into effect. My suspicion is that if it does get put in place in December, there will be multiple lawsuits about it and will most likely be put on hold until the lawsuits are cleared up. In fact, my hope is that due to the recent West Virginia vs. EPA Supreme Court ruling, it may never be put in place. But I could be wrong about that.

So, at least for a while, you are legal with the Saint Victor pistol...
 
Thanks, fellas!

I continued the research and Washington State Gun Law did a great video regarding the latest:


To recap: The rule will not be official in any sense until possibly December 2022 and implementation would be 120 days later.

My reason for the post was I noticed SA has discontinued this model and others in the forum speculated it was because it was about to become an SBR this month, therefore, SA changed their offerings to 7" barrels and a model with a TailHook brace:

https://www.springfield-armory.com/saint-series/saint-victor-ar-15-pistols/
 
MrTFranklin said:
Thanks, fellas!

I continued the research and Washington State Gun Law did a great video regarding the latest:


To recap: The rule will not be official in any sense until possibly December 2022 and implementation would be 120 days later.

My reason for the post was I noticed SA has discontinued this model and others in the forum speculated it was because it was about to become an SBR this month, therefore, SA changed their offerings to 7" barrels and a model with a TailHook brace:

https://www.springfield-armory.com/saint-series/saint-victor-ar-15-pistols/
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I was literally about to post the same video!! Lol. I'm not convinced yet that this will ever be implemented, at least in it's proposed form. Not after the EPA ruling.
 
nmedge said:
If it is not legal in your local jurisdiction you are already breaking the law. Why worry about it.
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I worry for two reasons:
  1. I'd rather not run afoul of the ATF. I live in this country, no matter where I move, I'm still under their jurisdiction.
  2. The purchase was legal by federal and state law. I could literally move 10 minutes away and the ownership would be legal according to the next county over. In the meantime, I won’t be getting a knock on my door if I own one from local authorities.
 
MrTFranklin said:
I worry for two reasons:
  1. I'd rather not run afoul of the ATF. I live in this country, no matter where I move, I'm still under their jurisdiction.
  2. The purchase was legal by federal and state law. I could literally move 10 minutes away and the ownership would be legal according to the next county over. In the meantime, I won’t be getting a knock on my door if I own one from local authorities.
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Take the brace off and put a foam piece on your tube. Now you're legal.
 
Bassbob said:
Take the brace off and put a foam piece on your tube. Now you're legal.
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He’s just as legal now with the brace on it as he would be with just the buffer tube. At least as far as the ATF is concerned. I don’t know about his state laws, but a pistol is a pistol with either the brace or a plain buffer tube. If the new rules go into effect in the future, your suggestion will make a difference in the point system, but there’s no point in doing that now.
 
uspatriot1960 said:
He’s just as legal now with the brace on it as he would be with just the buffer tube. At least as far as the ATF is concerned. I don’t know about his state laws, but a pistol is a pistol with either the brace or a plain buffer tube. If the new rules go into effect in the future, your suggestion will make a difference in the point system, but there’s no point in doing that now.
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There is one point. It will make it easier to shoot.
 
MrTFranklin said:
I worry for two reasons:
  1. I'd rather not run afoul of the ATF. I live in this country, no matter where I move, I'm still under their jurisdiction.
  2. The purchase was legal by federal and state law. I could literally move 10 minutes away and the ownership would be legal according to the next county over. In the meantime, I won’t be getting a knock on my door if I own one from local authorities.
Click to expand...
Agree with others above. That Brace rule change absolutely runs afoul of SCOTUS’ recent ruling against the EPA. Basically telling all gov agencies that they can’t make up 💩 beyond what congress specifically grants them. The Brace rule will be challenged in court based on the EPA ruling, which is why they pushed it back to December, they’re trying to find any loophole they can to push it through. But orgs like FPC and GOA have their lawsuits written and ready. This will be dragged out for at least a year before it gets torn to shreds by the court.
You have plenty of time to sit back and watch the fascists squirm.
 
xdman said:
It will be years before it is fully adjudicated, enjoy what you have now.
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They have a searchable database of 4473s They'll just come and take what they want. When they're done you'll get up to 10 years in the federal pokie . You'll lose all your rights, your home, your job/career. How do we defend against this? Can you back your brothers and sisters? We're in for a bad ride. If we don't change things this fall, I think we'll see several repeats of Ruby Ridge.
 
Funwithfuel said:
They have a searchable database of 4473s They'll just come and take what they want. When they're done you'll get up to 10 years in the federal pokie . You'll lose all your rights, your home, your job/career. How do we defend against this? Can you back your brothers and sisters? We're in for a bad ride. If we don't change things this fall, I think we'll see several repeats of Ruby Ridge.
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That’s going off the assumption that IF they call them SBR’s, you don’t

1)Register it
2) Sell it or
3)Surrender it

Additionally, it won’t happen overnight. There will be time (months, usually) to come into compliance.

End of the world, it ain’t.
 
I'm reading that we allegedly have an amnesty period ending in December. Yet I have not seen any public notice, just what I see in 2A circles.
 
What I’ve heard is whatever new rule they decide to implement will go into effect end of December. There will be time after that to do what you have to do to be in compliance. How long that will last? I don’t think anyone knows.
 
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