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Chances of New Federal Gun Restrictions?

Let's start by locking the damn door. Have at least one or two armed, trained and competent people in the school during school hours.

It might also be useful to remove predators from society at large by actually incarcerating them or executing them, as the case may be, when we catch them.
 
Bassbob said:
18 year olds are legally adults. They can enter contracts, drop out of high school, join the military, move out of their parent's house, all without having to obtain permission from their parents.
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Keystone19250 said:
Ok so everyone has made valid points on age restriction and of course how it relates to the 2A.

Here’s a question that needs to be discussed, how do we as a nation stop people from murdering our children?
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Hard core answer? We can’t.
I think our society has moved past the point of sanity with wokeness, lack of personal responsibility, media glorification, child rearing only being a female responsibility, et al. The only thing we can do is fortify and allow the armed populace to be more present in more places.
 
uspatriot1960 said:
We start with hardening the schools. Exactly how you do that can be up to debate. Restricting non-felon adults right to keep and bear arms should not be the debate.
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In a past post I detailed what Sandy Hook did when they rebuilt the elementary school. It wouldn’t be hard to do to exciting schools.

It falls in line with keeping entry doors locked and secure during school hours which begs the question why that teacher propped open that door at the school in Uvalde. Why was it done???
 
People, including teachers and administrators at schools, get complacent. I have seen it happen at our church, and it happens in all areas of life. Day after day, nothing happens. It gets hot in the classroom (air conditioning??), and an unthinking teacher props open the door to let in a little fresh air. Or, the teacher's spouse is going to drop off something for the teacher and he/she props open the door so they can get in without the hassles of going in the main entrance. After all, the class room is right next to the door. It is difficult to harden people's thinking and habits enough to totally stop this kind of tragedy. Even a lot of concealed carriers leave their weapons at home or in the car because it is just too uncomfortable having that holster and extra weight all the time. "Nothing has happened the last ten thousand times, it will just be a quick trip and the neighborhood I live in is safe."

Harden schools? A few years ago two kids (check Jonesboro, Arkansas) hid with rifles then set off the fire alarm at the school and opened fire when everyone came outside. Schools need a safe room(s) that is fireproof, with adequate ventilation. Schools need a secuity officer checking doors to be sure they are locked. I think the reason nothing much gets done is because elected representatives have their own agenda, which doesn't include protecting someone else's children. We don't want our schools looking and being like a prison, but that is about what it would take. Sad. I think we can harden schools, but we may still have something like this despite all we do.
 
A pretty good piece by Michael Tracey on the tone deaf hypocrisy of Democrats on "muh scary black rifle".

Surprise! The Texas Shooter and the Ukraine Military Get Their AR-15s From the Same Place

Like many pundits, Michael McFaul took a quick break this past week from his usual area of “expertise.” Instead of pontificating 24/7 about the need to funnel massive amounts of uncontrolled arms into Ukraine, he adroitly pivoted to pontificating about the need to more stringently control arms in the US. McFaul, a former Ambassador to Russia who is currently working with the Ukraine government to formulate war-related policy recommendations, issued the following command:

Michael McFaul
@McFaul
To all the manufacturers of AR15s, please stop. Just do the right thing. And the rest of us might consider stopping to focus on a legislative solution, and instead focus on a non-violent civic resistance campaign against these AR15 makers directly.
May 26th 2022

Few figures on the punditry scene are more adept at getting themselves into comical face-plant scenarios than McFaul — or more useful at highlighting unexamined contradictions of the yammering liberal commentariat. In this instance, McFaul demonstrates why he and likeminded commentators are so steadfastly determined to compartmentalize their positions on foreign policy versus domestic policy. Because it would apparently never even occur to McFaul that there might be some tension between his passionate calls to aggressively curtail gun circulation in the US, and his similarly passionate calls to circulate a giant number of guns in Ukraine.

McFaul and company demand both policies with roughly equal ardor, voicing them in the standard register that has come to define almost all left-liberal advocacy: “this thing must be done right now or everyone will die.” Meanwhile, they evince not even a hint of awareness that the positions could represent contradictory impulses. On the one hand, they want to ensure that the American populace is prevented from obtaining certain high-powered rifles. On the other hand, they want to ensure that the Ukrainian populace is enabled to obtain these same high-powered rifles. Both positions somehow manage to co-exist seamlessly alongside one another, like two of those inflatable tube things floating merrily downstream — never even coming close to clashing.

Is it possible that any contradictions between these stances could be resolved with some sort of reasoning or argumentation? Sure, it’s possible. A liberal who holds both positions could theoretically argue something along the lines of: “In the case of Ukraine, my purported belief in the sacrosanct necessity of gun control is superseded by my belief that unlimited, unregulated, uncontrollable proliferation of guns in Eastern Europe is necessary to Defend Democracy.” Or whatever — something to that effect. And then followup counter-arguments could be raised, such as: “Shouldn’t the mass proliferation of uncontrolled guns in Ukraine, which is occurring as a result of the policy you favor, call into question how vehemently you really value the principle of gun control? Because if the policy you favor in Ukraine is totally inimical to your stated belief in the absolute paramount necessity of gun control, shouldn’t that at least raise the bar for whether the Ukraine policy is justified?” And so on.

The point being, tensions between these two counterposing positions would at least require some argumentation to resolve. But what makes today’s McFaul-style advocacy so notable is the complete and total obliviousness to any such tension even existing in the first place. As they issue their emotionally-heated policy demands, most Democrats appear to have no concept whatsoever that there might be some discordance between their desire to increase regulation on gun ownership at home, while simultaneously obliterating any regulation on gun ownership abroad. Members of the media, the activist class, and the wider punditocracy lack even the basic cognizance that would be needed to broach the subject. So, as usual, the McFaul-style advocates just barrel zealously forward, demanding these two policy prescriptions with equal, unmitigated gusto — without anyone ever pausing to ask for clarification.

...... too long to fit the rest ......
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HansGruber said:
Raising the age to 21 and UBC would have likely prevented both Buffalo and Uvalde, as the shooters were 18 in both cases…the Uvalde shooter bought both of his rifles at a gun store, so definitely there.

Don’t mistake this for agreeing with the laws, but facts are facts.
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I disagree. If someone want's to commit an evil act, they will. No matter what law is in place. That is what makes them a criminal. If the person is under 21, they will only get what they want from another source.
Fact is we have "ALWAYS" had guns in this country. Not til recent times are there these atrocities. So, what has changed? Clearly not a firearms issue.
 
RandomHero said:
I disagree. If someone want's to commit an evil act, they will. No matter what law is in place. That is what makes them a criminal. If the person is under 21, they will only get what they want from another source.
Fact is we have "ALWAYS" had guns in this country. Not til recent times are there these atrocities. So, what has changed? Clearly not a firearms issue.
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Actually, facts don’t back that view up.

A lot of this stuff happens just because access is easy. Make it harder—make somebody have to WORK for it—and it won’t happen because it’s too difficult.

And, more facts: atrocities like these have happened throughout the country‘s history…they’re just happening more often now.
 
OkiePewPew said:
Hard core answer? We can’t.
I think our society has moved past the point of sanity with wokeness, lack of personal responsibility, media glorification, child rearing only being a female responsibility, et al. The only thing we can do is fortify and allow the armed populace to be more present in more places.
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You are hitting near the core of the problem Okie.
Root cause has to do with a bombardment of “culture war” issues, liberal administrations constantly telling us that our thinking is wrongheaded, unnecessary guilt trips ( it does not follow logically that because another person or demographic is or feels disadvantaged, you or your element of society are ‘guilty’ of something. )
There’s a pic & quote out there somewhere by Morgan Freeman about it, I believe.

But the point is, all these attacks, angst, mental health issues, etc etc are due to the overwhelming negative media-driven propaganda machine.
Fact is, We’re wealthier, safer, and better off than ever before…. and maybe that’s a problem in and of itself.
 
TidalWave said:
You are hitting near the core of the problem Okie.
Root cause has to do with a bombardment of “culture war” issues, liberal administrations constantly telling us that our thinking is wrongheaded, unnecessary guilt trips ( it does not follow logically that because another person or demographic is or feels disadvantaged, you or your element of society are ‘guilty’ of something. )
There’s a pic & quote out there somewhere by Morgan Freeman about it, I believe.

But the point is, all these attacks, angst, mental health issues, etc etc are due to the overwhelming negative media-driven propaganda machine.
Fact is, We’re wealthier, safer, and better off than ever before…. and maybe that’s a problem in and of itself.
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Agree. Guns have always been as available as tapwater in our country. But we didn't always have these kinds of shootings. The difference is cultural. Why do we now have so many young people (or just people in general) who feel entitled to lash out violently whenever they are upset about life?

Well, they are taught that their history is crap. They are taught that their future is crap. There is no virtue. There is no beauty. There is no truth. There is nothing in the world but ugliness and injustice. They are taught that their very existence is a plague upon the earth. Social media and internet flood their minds with information, most of it negative, that is never really processed or evaluated. Social interactions within social media are mean and cruel, or vapid and meaningless.

How do we protect our kids? The only hope is a hard road of restoring a spiritual/moral center in our culture. Something good to believe in and stand for. The principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Constiution come to mind. A good and loving God, anyone? We need to teach a true, but positive history. Promote a realistic, but optimistic vision of the future. Teach kids there is good, beauty and truth to be found in the world, to counteract the ugliness and evil. That the way to make the world a better place is not by forcing others to change, but by changing themselves for the better.

The problem is, of course, that you can't do any of this with some slick new package of legislation. We got here gradually. We'll have to find our way gradually to where we want to be.

Until then, a bunch of good people with guns will have to do.
 
Ranger715 said:
Agree. Guns have always been as available as tapwater in our country. But we didn't always have these kinds of shootings. The difference is cultural. Why do we now have so many young people (or just people in general) who feel entitled to lash out violently whenever they are upset about life?

Well, they are taught that their history is crap. They are taught that their future is crap. There is no virtue. There is no beauty. There is no truth. There is nothing in the world but ugliness and injustice. They are taught that their very existence is a plague upon the earth. Social media and internet flood their minds with information, most of it negative, that is never really processed or evaluated. Social interactions within social media are mean and cruel, or vapid and meaningless.

How do we protect our kids? The only hope is a hard road of restoring a spiritual/moral center in our culture. Something good to believe in and stand for. The principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Constiution come to mind. A good and loving God, anyone? We need to teach a true, but positive history. Promote a realistic, but optimistic vision of the future. Teach kids there is good, beauty and truth to be found in the world, to counteract the ugliness and evil. That the way to make the world a better place is not by forcing others to change, but by changing themselves for the better.

The problem is, of course, that you can't do any of this with some slick new package of legislation. We got here gradually. We'll have to find our way gradually to where we want to be.

Until then, a bunch of good people with guns will have to do.
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“True, but positive history”…

Kinda wonder how you’re gonna spin the fact that for pretty much its entire existence, this country has screwed over anyone who wasn’t white & male…

I think the history needs be taught honestly…spinning it to make like everything’s always been perfect will just make things worse.
 
HansGruber said:
“True, but positive history”…

Kinda wonder how you’re gonna spin the fact that for pretty much its entire existence, this country has screwed over anyone who wasn’t white & male…

I think the history needs be taught honestly…spinning it to make like everything’s always been perfect will just make things worse.
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True means honest. True precludes "spinning." This country's sins are not unique. It is the history of humanity everywhere that some people "screw over" others. Acting like our history is nothing but a litany of follies and injustice is not any more honest than claiming "everything's always been perfect." We can own up to our human failings, but also point out our virtues and celebrate them. That's what I mean by positive.
 
HansGruber said:
Actually, facts don’t back that view up.

A lot of this stuff happens just because access is easy. Make it harder—make somebody have to WORK for it—and it won’t happen because it’s too difficult.

And, more facts: atrocities like these have happened throughout the country‘s history…they’re just happening more often now.
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You mean its not a fact that we have always had guns in this country?
You also think these atrocities of mass shootings have also always happened?

I would say the facts "do" support my view.
 
HansGruber said:
Actually, facts don’t back that view up.

A lot of this stuff happens just because access is easy. Make it harder—make somebody have to WORK for it—and it won’t happen because it’s too difficult.

And, more facts: atrocities like these have happened throughout the country‘s history…they’re just happening more often now.
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Are you suggesting making it harder for everyone, or just certain ones? And how would those certain ones be determined and by whom? "Make it harder" you say? That sounds much like the mantra of "DO SOMETHING"!!!

Access was very much easier back 50-60 years ago and even up till the late 90's. I, or anyone could literally walk into a local hardware store, auto parts store, dept store, etc, and buy right off the rack most any firearm I/they wanted. Hell, I could even order a firearm through Sears, Montgomery Wards, and other's catalogues and more than that ...... have the gun delivered right to my front door.

I'm not sure how it gets much easier than that, yet so very, very few mass shootings back then. And I remember so many times a gun or guns would be left hanging in the window rack of a students truck in the school parking lot all day long and no one even flinched. I even remember bringing our new guns (Christmas and/or B-day gifts) to school for 'show-n-tell'.

No, it's not easier access to anything. It's a loss of morals, traditions, family values, and the teaching of consequences for one's actions. The only thing easier today regarding guns is that few if any are held accountable for their actions. Look around, it's not just the guns. It's criminal activity in general. And the viciousness of some of the evil acts we see every day.

I just read of a young lady counter server at a local burger drive through who was attacked by several who claimed her service wasn't fast enough. She was jumped, and beaten down. It didn't stop even then but the entire group of her attackers continued to 'KICK' her, time after time in the head.

Mass shootings are just one extreme of today's lawlessness. Anyone so naive as to claim it's due to the ease of acquiring weapons is very short sighted. This is very much like what I've heard argued today in congress regarding more gun control ...... all arguably unconstitutional, most irrational, few if any effective at curbing mass shootings or any other criminal activity.

I know, let's make it against the law to shoot to kill people ............ oh wait........ we already have that law. :rolleyes:
 
jumpinjoe said:
I just read of a young lady counter server at a local burger drive through who was attacked by several who claimed her service wasn't fast enough. She was jumped, and beaten down. It didn't stop even then but the entire group of her attackers continued to 'KICK' her, time after time in the head.
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I saw (on TV) some behavior like this during the riots of 2020, people being kicked, stomped, hit with clubs, etc. All the people beaten were doing was trying to get the rioters to move on and not destroy their homes and/or businesses. We live in a time very much different now than back when we were younger, Jumpinjoe.
 
somorris said:
I saw (on TV) some behavior like this during the riots of 2020, people being kicked, stomped, hit with clubs, etc. All the people beaten were doing was trying to get the rioters to move on and not destroy their homes and/or businesses. We live in a time very much different now than back when we were younger, Jumpinjoe.
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Yours and Joe’s posts are evidence that what ails us is not “guns” or “high capacity mags”.
 
Access was very much easier back 50-60 years ago and even up till the late 90's. I, or anyone could literally walk into a local hardware store, auto parts store, dept store, etc, and buy right off the rack most any firearm I/they wanted. Hell, I could even order a firearm through Sears, Montgomery Wards, and other's catalogues and more than that ...... have the gun delivered right to my front door.
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Truth!
Don't forget they Army Surplus store. There was good finds there. My uncle bought a 03 bolt action for like $30, a heap of cash back then
 
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