Is an Empty Chamber Dangerous?
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
Core
Operator
This is one of the more empirical writeups on the subject without getting too tangical: good job! Mr. Ayoob always brings a good deal of experience to the conversation. My carry pistol: pointed at my meaty bits in appendix carry, invisible to the world around me, has six mechanical safeties to prevent unintended discharge. It's more than highly improbable that the six safeties will fail with a loaded chamber: so unlikely that worrying would be no more than hysteria. I nearly always see eye to eye with Mr. Ayoob: minus some early #2A differences of opinion. I grew up watching him quietly shoot at a somewhat rough public range in Maine: I learned a good deal from his range etiquette. Sadly most of the time I was too busy blasting away at the targets. Years later I have grown a great deal in experience and knowledge: I hope we can keep public ranges open and manage them properly. Having over regulated commercial ranges are nice but nothing compares to a public range where generations of citizens can go and enculturate the love for hunting and the shooting sports.
My little XD/S in 45 has never missed a lick except when trying to rack one in by pulling the slide. If you put it in slide lock and drop the slide the thing loads all the time. Once loaded it runs 100%
I'd strongly be against carrying it with an empty chamber and trying to rack one in when you need it. You could find yourself with a jammed up mess in a time of need.
I'd strongly be against carrying it with an empty chamber and trying to rack one in when you need it. You could find yourself with a jammed up mess in a time of need.
Core
Operator
My Walther does that with hollowpoints: I second this warning/advice. My TAC XD 45 did that for a while, but once the mag springs set for a while fully loaded I have not experienced the issue again. I suspect the Walther has the same issue as the springs are insanely aggressive and stiff: sadly they have not taken a seat yet so they probably never will. Have 10,000+rds through the TAC XD 45, with no issues once the mags took a seat probably 500-1000rds by the time my mags sat long enough loaded to take a "equalize" or "take a seat." Only mod is an aluminum striker pin channel, and a coil spring to prevent the classic split pin walk out in the second gen HS2000/XDs.
Did you read the whole article?
"Another is that, very often, the other hand simply is not available. It may be pushing an opponent away or holding his knife hand in abeyance. It might be pushing someone you love out of harm’s way, or you and your opponent’s combined weight may pin it to the ground if he has you down. A second bad guy may have grabbed it, or it may have been injured early in the encounter. Struggling to rack the slide one-handed will take way longer and will be much more difficult than if both hands were free to dedicate to the task of getting your gun fully loaded at the last, desperate moment."
The other point to be made is, “what if your second hand isn’t available?” Close quarters situation when you’re using your free hand to protect yourself or possibly walking your dog and the free hand is tied up with the lead. In those situations it’s more than half a second to rack your slide. Also first time I had heard about the multiple types of guns creating the need for the “Israeli” carry, so thanks for that.
Bassbob
Emissary
Which Walther?
John Wayne
Operator
Chambered since 1980 but with real safeties not the faux ones on the trigger. This year my dog had an intruder dog by the throat and would not release. Only my right hand was available after trying to pry her mouth open. I was able to immediately discharge into the dirt to my right and she released the other dog and I held my dog with my left hand. Yes my farm is fenced. I have also killed a 405# and a 313# wild hogs. I would never ever have an empty chamber ever especially as my hands age!!!
Mr. Untactical
Master Class
So many articles on this topic, but this is a good reminder of an important principle: why do you carry a gun. Almost by definition the reason is for self-defense. And in a life-or-death scenario, why would you want to give away any advantage to a potential attacker? Chambered for me, please.Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled Is an Empty Chamber Dangerous? and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/is-an-empty-chamber-dangerous/.
I have never carried a firearm of any kind without a shell in the chamber.
The only time I unloaded a shotgun or a rifle was when I was coming into the house or unloading and placing in a case before getting in a vehicle to come home from hunting. My revolvers and pistols always had a round in the chamber or all cylinders were loaded.
The only time I unloaded a shotgun or a rifle was when I was coming into the house or unloading and placing in a case before getting in a vehicle to come home from hunting. My revolvers and pistols always had a round in the chamber or all cylinders were loaded.
BangBang
Professional
Competition shooting is completely different than real world scenarios. If you want to do a competition shoot that reflects real world scenarios go shoot IDPA, you draw your weapon “hot” ready to shoot.
RangerBill
Operator
I watched a video of an armed robbery at a convenience store. The store owner was armed, no round in the chamber, and as things unfolded, obviously not skilled with handling his pistol. He was quite shaken and trying to get the slide back, and the robber shot and killed him. That video should be required viewing in any concealed carry class.
Regards,
Bill
Regards,
Bill
I am confused about the "cold competition" guns and then the mention of "real world" IDPA. I have shop IDPA, USPSA, and Steel and they are ALL COLD until you get ready to "MAKE READY". Then you load and shoot the stage. Otherwise you can only handle in a "SAFE" area. While IDPA may be more like real world USPSA still makes you draw and shoot accurately while moving. Neither one is a substitute for training but they sure help you a lot.
I am confused, too, SC. My main point in my post above was if it is perfectly safe to have a round in the chamber until you put your finger on the trigger, then why do competitions require the guns to be totally unloaded (not just an empty chamber, but also no mag)? I am not arguing for concealed carry of a defensive firearm in a "cold" condition, but just pointing out that there is a bit of a dicotomy here. I guess my main point is that it is not perfectly safe to carry a gun around in a "ready to shoot" condition. Accidental discharges can and do happen. While each of us has a different risk tolerance, all the newbies to our ranks lately need to know they have to be careful handling a loaded firearm.
HansGruber
Ronin
I think we're trying to equate a game with real life, here...and that’s rarely a good idea.
KMacK
Operator
I was trained that there is no such thing as an empty chamber in a loaded firearm, so yeah, an "Empty Chamber" is dangerous. It may be dangerous because you have to cycle the action to load your weapon OR it may be dangerous because you only THINK it's empty when it isn't.
Note: On a revolver such as a classic Colt Peacemaker, its acceptable to carry the pistol with the hammer down on an empty chamber (it's also the only safe way to do so). Why? Because you have to cock the hammer to shoot the thing, and that brings a loaded chamber up to be fired.
Obviously, this does not apply to a semi-auto pistol - Ever.
Note: On a revolver such as a classic Colt Peacemaker, its acceptable to carry the pistol with the hammer down on an empty chamber (it's also the only safe way to do so). Why? Because you have to cock the hammer to shoot the thing, and that brings a loaded chamber up to be fired.
Obviously, this does not apply to a semi-auto pistol - Ever.
Here's a good video on why you should always have one in the chamber when you are carrying. It's just a series of examples where not having one in the chamber resulted in serious injury or death. The short of it is that it is very possible that a self defense scenario involves you only having one hand available. Chambering a round with one hand while someone is trying to assault or kill you is not going to be easy. There may simply just not be enough time even if you are practiced in one hand chambering.
That was 1 of the best articles I read on this subjectHello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled Is an Empty Chamber Dangerous? and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/is-an-empty-chamber-dangerous/.
KMacK
Operator
An Empty Chamber can be the most dangerous thing on the planet. Let me explain. This has nothing to do with how fast you can cycle your weapon to load it. It has nothing to do with snap caps. It has everything to do with human nature. Carrying on an "Empty Chamber" creates a false sense of safety, that you could pull the trigger and nothing would happen. If this were the case, there would be a whole lot less negligent discharges with the attendant dangers thereto. Yes, keep your chamber empty but mentally assume that it is somehow loaded. I secured a bit of thin plastic to a fired, primerless reformed cartridge and kept that in the chamber. I could see the tail of that thin piece of plastic through the little hole in the top of the slide (cartridge indicator window, I guess...it came with the pistol). I knew the chamber was loaded, but it was loaded with something that could not be discharged. My Springf*eld is like Peglegjoe's so no safety outside of the grip safety. Since it was loaded (dead load, but still loaded) I treated it as such. I could see my safety system poking out but it was still loaded... I was trained that as long as a firearm was in one piece, it was loaded and, well, after all these years, it stuck. Not-disassembled is Loaded for me and always will be.
