The good news is that you'll be a life member long after you're dead.
Wayne LaPierre resigns
- Thread starter uspatriot1960
- Start date
Bassbob
Emissary
Well if you get to keep voting after you die I see no reason I can't remain a member of the NRA after I die.
Snake45
Professional
At 2:45 this afternoon, post #71, I posted a link to a post from a Board member who gave a very detailed account of "being there." Did you miss that?
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
With all due respect, NO Snake, I didn't miss it ... and I actually read most of it. Am I understanding you to be implying it somehow convicted WLP? The only thing I got from it was that WLP resigned sometime a little before noon today in a closed executive meeting. But I think we already knew that and I didn't see, hear nor read even one word of real evidence. When you asked "Did you miss that?" ... I don't know, it just seemed a little harsh, maybe even condescending. I certainly hope it was not intended that way.
Now if you're asking if I didn't think it somehow exonerated him, my answer would be the same ... that after reading down through most of the article I saw nothing to change anything I had previously written. My assertion regarding having not seen anything published here or anywhere else demonstrating special information or results of a private meeting was implying I've seen nothing of real significance to sway me either way. The only thing I see as reported in your link was that there was an executive meeting called, 50 sum out of 70 sum directors were in attendance, all their phones were locked as they entered the room and unlocked as they left, and WLP resigned effective 1/29/24 iirc.
If I've somehow misunderstood your assertion in this reply:
then I don't know what to say. My question was in reference to any special info or results from any private meetings that resulted in any real evidence either way, not just an article telling what we already knew. I think it's fair to say that you don't have a particularly favorable opinion of WLP, and that's perfectly fine. And if you have any real evidence at all of his guilt that would meet the criteria of 'IUPGBaRD', I'll be happy to listen to it and consider it. But I tried to make my position perfectly clear in my first reply that anything/everything I had to say was my opinion and mine alone based only on what I have seen, read, heard, and maybe a little speculation, but no 'real' evidence. And I ended my reply with these words: "Nothing written above is intended to be accusatory nor judgemental toward anyone. Just this one man's opinion." I can be as polite and respectful as polite and respectful is ... and I expect the same in return. Maybe we can just agree on that? jj
Bassbob
Emissary
Yeah it's information brother, but it's also heresay not evidence. I'd like to think our members here are all honest stand up guys. And they probably are, but nothing anyone has posted here is evidence. And this is America. If the dude is going to court they are going to need more than some guy's recounting of an NRA meeting to convict him.Joe, no problem. Maybe it's "reading comprehension" on my part. I thought the link I posted had good information and it was my impression you hadn't seen it at all, is all. I'm glad you did. No offense or disrespect was intended toward you. We good?
Snake45
Professional
You are correct. I haven't been looking at this whole thing in terms of WLP going to criminal court, I've been looking at it in terms of getting rid of a BAD, corrupt leader of an organization I hold dear. I don't want WLP to go to prison, but I want him to be gone and stop embezzling money from good people.
With everything that HAS happened from getting the BOD to change Bylaws so it’s harder for them to vote WLP out to the (to me) hostile removal of Olly North when North called WLP to all the expenditures (which have been documented)
Then folks like Buzz Mills (owner of Gunsite) and others resigned the BOD because they saw the storm coming
This whole thing reminds me of the Wizard of Oz. “Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain”
Hopefully the BOD will get changed so no WLP mini Me’s make it part 2 and they can recover.
Then folks like Buzz Mills (owner of Gunsite) and others resigned the BOD because they saw the storm coming
This whole thing reminds me of the Wizard of Oz. “Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain”
Hopefully the BOD will get changed so no WLP mini Me’s make it part 2 and they can recover.
I have seen some of the accusations about WLP using NRA funds for travel and new suits, but I have also read he reimbursed the NRA a fair amount of money. He has done a lot of good during his tenure, like increasing membership a significant amount until just lately, but for the good of the NRA I agree it is time for new leadership. I suspect some of the animosity towards WLP has been generated because of sour grapes on the part of some folks who disagreed with the direction of the NRA (not that I totally agree) but burn the entire organization down? I personally think we (the NRA) are at a good place now and can maybe re-unite ourselves to oppose those in government who would disarm us.
Annihilator
Emissary
While most here know, I quit them sometime last year due to WLP, not because of the allegations but due to his poor and inadequate leadership of this organization. Since he retired now, I may re-join but first I will see what direction they go, hopefully back the the most aggressive 2nd amendment defender we had, enough said!
uspatriot1960
Custom
I don’t have proof that WLP did anything illegal and belongs in prison. That scenario never even crossed my mind. I do know that the perception of impropriety has driven millions away from the NRA. It’s not just a few people here on this board. We are not dealing with a court of law here. We are dealing with a private organization which has somehow, someway eroded its reputation to millions of former members. Rightly or wrongly. Proof or no proof. When that happens, someone in the organization needs to take responsibility to earn the trust of the people back. WLP is the face of the NRA and should have been a leader long ago and stepped down. Whether he did anything wrong or not. Because he didn’t, the NRA has suffered. JMO and apparently the opinion of millions of others. Not all, but a lot…
uspatriot1960
Custom
I’ll add this. WLP did a lot to make the NRA the strongest pro 2A organization in the history of the country. He built it into a powerhouse the world has never seen. He does deserve credit for that. Somewhere along the way, things changed. And as much credit as he deserves for making the NRA what it is, he should take responsibility for what has happened to it over the last number of years. I don’t have a whole lot more to say than these last two posts of mine.
Hammer67
Professional
It's also good to keep in mind that the president of a 501(c)(4) serves under the approval of a board. The NRA also has an internal auditing committee. So if WLP committed crimes, or even simply acted in ways that were unethical with the organization's funds, he could hardly have done so in a vacuum. If the allegations are true, then there is a leadership culture that extends far beyond WLP alone, and those people are still in place.
Bassbob
Emissary
Fair enough. As I have ( Correctly) pointed out here on this board 8 million times though, throwing the baby out with the bathwater can only lead to one result. And when there is no 2A organization left that politicians are afraid of, every single member who quit will only have themselves to blame.
uspatriot1960
Custom
I’m not sure any gun people really wanted to throw the baby out with the bath water, I know I didn’t. And I’m all for the NRA making a STRONG comeback. But maybe it took a drop in membership and revenues for some changes to be made in leadership. Sometimes change hurts, but in the long run, it’s for the best. Time will tell here, but I think/hope the NRA will come back stronger than ever.
Bassbob
Emissary
The thing is WLP didn't step down because of dwindling membership. It's looking like he stepped down because they're fixing to nail his butt to a tree in court. So abandoning the NRA, as of right now, has had zero effect other than to weaken it as a political force. Which no matter what anyone says or what WLP did, is bad for ALL GUN OWNERS. WLP may very well be guilty of all kinds of chicanery, but one thing he is not guilty of is abandoning the fight for gun rights.
While we're on that topic, let me again point out that over the last few years I have seen several people complain, saying things like " Where is the NRA", as if they weren't involved in this or that lawsuit or as if they had jumped in at the last minute on the coat tails of GOA or one of the other upstarts. Those people need to do some actual research before stating their assumptions as fact. Look into who's lawyers were doing what. Filing Amicus Curiae briefs and bankrolling legal teams. The fact is the vast majority of 2A rights you enjoy today that you didn't have 30 or 40 years ago you would still not have if not for the NRA. Concealed Carry, Constitutional Carry, those are 100% brought to you courtesy of the NRA.
Let me end my little rant here by clarifying that I am not directing this specifically to you @uspatriot1960 or anyone in particular. I just happened upon these thoughts in my head while reading your post. So please don't take offense or assume I was trying to start an argument with you. In fact I pretty much agree with you.
uspatriot1960
Custom
No offense taken. And you make some good points.
Hammer67
Professional
While that's true, the growth of NRA membership has slowed greatly in recent years.
And one could say that has nothing to do with the NRA itself, and is due to external factors that the NRA doesn't have any control over, but that really doesn't hold much water at all. Gun ownership in America has exploded over the same time period that NRA membership growth has slowed. On top of that, it's left an opportunity open for other orgs, like GOA, to establish themselves and gain millions of members.
As for what NRA did 30 or 40 years ago, they certainly deserve credit, and they have my appreciation for that. But I have no loyalty to what an organization did decades ago - I evaluate them in the here and now. And in the here and now I, 1) see a bloated, top-heavy organization that wastes money, and 2) leadership that imo, seems very crooked. Do I have incontrovertible proof of that? Of course not, but at the same time, it's the exact same perception that literally millions of other former members have - is it possible we've all just gotten it so wrong?
Which is all unfortunate, to put it mildly. Because at the ground level, I do think the NRA still has a lot of good programs that promote responsible gun ownership. But I'm not going to help for WLP's Gulfstream or his alligator slippers, sorry.
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
Two things here ... 1st to Snake45. Thanks for the respectful come-back in msg #85. I truly appreciate anyone who can understand the potential for a misunderstanding of a written reply. We, you and I, have no issues as far as I'm concerned and happy to hear the same from you. Let's keep on keeping on! jj
2nd ... In all the hoopla I've seen here in the last 99 posts, I keep seeing the same thing over and over, and it's a natural tendency of humans and most other animals. 'To be part of the crowd'. I don't think I've seen anyone here, or anywhere else for that matter who truly has even a shred of real evidence of any wrong doing on WLP's part but, since so many others (many we don't even know) have apparently chosen to drop membership, feel they need/should drop their membership as well. It's sad that an organization as worthwhile to us pro 2nd folks as the NRA is has taken the beating it has over the past few years, both in power (sheer numbers on the roll) and in finances (assets to fight our fight) by so many leaving the organization. Not because we 'know' anything, but we've heard so much from so many others and our desire to be 'part of the group'.
I'm not pampas nor arrogant enough to say to others ... "you're totally wrong and should change your perception". But what I will say is to ask all to really think about our responsibility to this organization and whether or not what we know/or think we know is proof positive enough that we should choose to not support our organization. For me the answer is easy ... I've already explained I'm an ardent supporter of the 2nd and just as ardent supporter of 'IUPGBaRD', and that includes WLP. I have only one time even considered dropping my membership, but then through discussions with many of the members of my local gun club, and listening to the many horror stories that I knew could not be true, I chose to remain as much a supporter of my organization as just a dues paying member of that organization. Could I be wrong and WLP be guilty of everything he's been accused of ... yes I could be. But that's not for me to decide since I don't have any evidence. Like BassBob, I refuse to throw out the baby with the bath water or to kill the golden goose.
Our organization has been hurt and weakened by the drop in membership numbers (assets). That's a rally cry for the anti's and they know it. Everyone has to live by his/her own conscience and that's what we as NRA members should be doing rather than 'being part of the crowd'. I'm not even suggesting anyone is right or wrong in their decision ... only that we all should take a breath and really think this thing through. There will come a day when we will all be wishing for the strongest, most effective pro 2nd amendment organization possible. The day is coming when we will need it!
2nd ... In all the hoopla I've seen here in the last 99 posts, I keep seeing the same thing over and over, and it's a natural tendency of humans and most other animals. 'To be part of the crowd'. I don't think I've seen anyone here, or anywhere else for that matter who truly has even a shred of real evidence of any wrong doing on WLP's part but, since so many others (many we don't even know) have apparently chosen to drop membership, feel they need/should drop their membership as well. It's sad that an organization as worthwhile to us pro 2nd folks as the NRA is has taken the beating it has over the past few years, both in power (sheer numbers on the roll) and in finances (assets to fight our fight) by so many leaving the organization. Not because we 'know' anything, but we've heard so much from so many others and our desire to be 'part of the group'.
I'm not pampas nor arrogant enough to say to others ... "you're totally wrong and should change your perception". But what I will say is to ask all to really think about our responsibility to this organization and whether or not what we know/or think we know is proof positive enough that we should choose to not support our organization. For me the answer is easy ... I've already explained I'm an ardent supporter of the 2nd and just as ardent supporter of 'IUPGBaRD', and that includes WLP. I have only one time even considered dropping my membership, but then through discussions with many of the members of my local gun club, and listening to the many horror stories that I knew could not be true, I chose to remain as much a supporter of my organization as just a dues paying member of that organization. Could I be wrong and WLP be guilty of everything he's been accused of ... yes I could be. But that's not for me to decide since I don't have any evidence. Like BassBob, I refuse to throw out the baby with the bath water or to kill the golden goose.
Our organization has been hurt and weakened by the drop in membership numbers (assets). That's a rally cry for the anti's and they know it. Everyone has to live by his/her own conscience and that's what we as NRA members should be doing rather than 'being part of the crowd'. I'm not even suggesting anyone is right or wrong in their decision ... only that we all should take a breath and really think this thing through. There will come a day when we will all be wishing for the strongest, most effective pro 2nd amendment organization possible. The day is coming when we will need it!