Bassbob
Emissary
Even if you don’t have guns you should teach your kids about them. If you don’t teach them one of their dumbass little friends will.
Alec Baldwin charged...!!
- Thread starter Old_Me
- Start date
RickAnderson
Custom
If he was using a fake gun, wouldn't the cameras woman be alive today? It is an acceptable legal defense that pointing a fake gun at someone justifies their action in self-defense. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, claiming ignorance of firearms is not an excuse either.The movie industry has set a standard that actors are too stupid to be trusted with firearm safety, on that point alone, it greatly contributed to the accident and shifted responsibility from the actor to the armorer...
...but to the same point made by multiple posts.... ...the cops never arrested Baldwin or the Armorer, instead came back months later after a Grand Jury to charge them.... ...so there are many more facts and details than Baldwin was just handed a loaded gun that should have been unloaded.... ....and after all the facts and details are collected and examined in the full context, Baldwin as a producer had a lot more responsibility for the accident because of the safety conditions on the set, that had multiple warnings was leading to something like this and did nothing about it....
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Minuteman76
Operator
a neighbor once handed me a pistol, it was an HK. I remember it vividly because he handed it to me in a way that he flagged himself. I instinctively dropped the mag and checked the chamber to find that it was loaded to his stifled horror. I was at the range last week and showing another guy my pistol and ensured that he saw no mag in well and that I demonstrated an empty chamber--a process that takes seconds.
Alec Baldwin Will Be Charged With Involuntary Manslaughter in ‘Rust’ Killing (Published 2023)
A gun that Mr. Baldwin was rehearsing with went off, killing the film’s cinematographer. The armorer responsible for weapons on set also faces manslaughter charges.www.nytimes.com
safety
RickAnderson
Custom
I remember the lead up to the 1st Gulf War, the media promoting the few malcontents in the military, claiming they shouldn't have to go, because when they joined the military they never thought they would have to fight in a war.....
I have the same tolerance for folks that claim they never realized a firearm could hurt someone, as an excuse for negligence with a firearm, nor folks that claimed that acting irresponsibly with a realistic looking fake firearm shouldn't alarm anyone and their not responsible for the reasonable actions someone takes in response to what they reasonably assumed was a real firearm.
I have the same tolerance for folks that claim they never realized a firearm could hurt someone, as an excuse for negligence with a firearm, nor folks that claimed that acting irresponsibly with a realistic looking fake firearm shouldn't alarm anyone and their not responsible for the reasonable actions someone takes in response to what they reasonably assumed was a real firearm.
RickAnderson
Custom
and it is very human, when doing a quick repetitive task, and a little distracted, we see what we expect to see and miss the reality.... ....that is why double and triple checks, each person checks, etc is also good practice.... ...not being insecure and get insulted if someone checks for themselves after you had just checked, etc....
I stowed a pistol in the carrying case about to take it home, with a dud round in the chamber, because it was a dud, even my dry fire in a safe area/direction before stowing for the day, didn't catch the mistake.... ....only my son double checking everything before we loaded everything in the vehicle, because he realized we were rushing things a bit, caught it and saved me.....
Movies is the only industry using firearms, that has set a standard....
You violate basic safety rules to get the shot, i.e. point weapons at a person or a camera (understandably)....
-but then-
Do not require every person handling weapons to be trained on them, understand them and the safety rules and make them responsible for the safety precautions that go along with the weapons...
Cops probably do have the highest rate of negligent discharge because they have 100 times the exposure of the average person to conditions that could create a negative discharge....
The military does very well consider the conditions they operate, probably less exposure than cops in garrison, but in training and combat, have multiple and different weapons fired from multiple positions in the fog of war, but they still have accidents as well....
Old_Me
Ronin
if i am at the range and i want someone to "try" one of my guns, i leave a loaded mag on the port's bench, slide open. that way, that person has to insert the mag, and drop the slide
Annihilator
Emissary
If he didn’t say in that one interview that he didn’t pull the trigger, but earlier after the incident he stated he did pull the trigger, he is nothing but a liar! He won’t take any responsibility for what happened, he should have to pay the circumstances of the shooting, no matter what.
Area52
Professional
I found this article interesting , it will summarize and could clear up some of the unknowns we discussed here. I haven’t kept up with the developments and particulars before it became a post here.
nypost.com
Twists and turns that led to Alec Baldwin being charged in ‘Rust’ shooting
From a movie crew that was upset even before the shooting to dangerous gun games, here are all the twists and turns around the “Rust” shooting.
nypost.com
RandomHero
Custom
The question I have is why would he point the gun at the actor when they were not filming?
Sld1959
Hellcat
The following is an opinion.
We sit here, looking at an end result, and judging it by "our" standards of gun safety. And what we think they should have known. What we should remember is that in "thier world" there are "supposed" to be various levels of safety built into thier job, with people paid who's only job is to insure that the prop they hand the actor is safe. And yes, to this group that handgun in thier hand is a prop, not a gun in thier mind, it's basically no different than a vase of flowers.
We need to remember this fairy tale world in which they live and work is no different in the handling of firearms for an adult or kid. The process is SUPPOSED to be rigid, controlled and filled with safety checks. And when these are not followed is when incidents happen.
Does this excuse the person from responsibility, no, of course not. But it can help explain how tragic accidents happen. And it can explain how a person who has no interest in firearms can use them with absolutely no knowledge of what we consider as common sense 4 rules of firearms handling.
Thier minds do not work with the same information we have. They have not been trained to think in the same way. Our knowledge of what we believe is basic and a bible code of conduct, and the mindset of our being personally responsible for that weapon is as foreign to them as brain surgery. It is to them a prop like any other someone else is responsible for.
This does not relieve one of responsibility, it is not an excuse. It is part of the reason such things occur and will continue to occur . What should he be charged with, I am not a legal expert, but there should be some legal accountblity. He should be held responsible but SO SHOULD THE SYSTEM WHICH HELPED THIS TO OCCUR. there should be some legal accountability to those who helped this to occur.
We sit here, looking at an end result, and judging it by "our" standards of gun safety. And what we think they should have known. What we should remember is that in "thier world" there are "supposed" to be various levels of safety built into thier job, with people paid who's only job is to insure that the prop they hand the actor is safe. And yes, to this group that handgun in thier hand is a prop, not a gun in thier mind, it's basically no different than a vase of flowers.
We need to remember this fairy tale world in which they live and work is no different in the handling of firearms for an adult or kid. The process is SUPPOSED to be rigid, controlled and filled with safety checks. And when these are not followed is when incidents happen.
Does this excuse the person from responsibility, no, of course not. But it can help explain how tragic accidents happen. And it can explain how a person who has no interest in firearms can use them with absolutely no knowledge of what we consider as common sense 4 rules of firearms handling.
Thier minds do not work with the same information we have. They have not been trained to think in the same way. Our knowledge of what we believe is basic and a bible code of conduct, and the mindset of our being personally responsible for that weapon is as foreign to them as brain surgery. It is to them a prop like any other someone else is responsible for.
This does not relieve one of responsibility, it is not an excuse. It is part of the reason such things occur and will continue to occur . What should he be charged with, I am not a legal expert, but there should be some legal accountblity. He should be held responsible but SO SHOULD THE SYSTEM WHICH HELPED THIS TO OCCUR. there should be some legal accountability to those who helped this to occur.
Minuteman76
Operator
Baldwin is the producer, so a double whammy.
He had a responsibility to on set safety standards. No matter their experience/attitudes/training--they're filming a film about the wild west including gunplay & gun fights. So, they need to have fundamental training to portray the characters and handle the equipment in order to demonstrate some reasonable proficiency; including safety training, IMHO.
N
nmedge
Guest
That was not the armorer. The armorer is a girl.
Old_Me
Ronin
it also goes to say that when actors become the producers (also known as the money people that front these projects), they need more knowledge in who to hire and NOT cut costs. in fact, to have (say) a retired cop on set, would serve every bit as well as a professional armorer.
but many actor/producers have a limited budget and for good reason, they DO NOT want to lose thier money, should the movie/tv show bomb at the box office or in the Nielsen ratings, and end the work.
a box office dud will garner money only if popular, and "bank" stars are involved. get 2nd or even lowly 4th rate stars, and one can be certain of a dud.
no royalties, no part 2, part 3, etc.
tv shows that tank, do not even make it to TVLand.
a "smart" actor/director/producer, would hire an "over-seer" to the project to work out the details.
had this been the "usual Hollywood production", this would have never happened. as professionals get the details down pat.
an actor and HIS/HER own production company, will never have the money to do so, so he/she cuts corners.
BreakingWind
Master Class
Yes, the Armorer is the daughter of a well known and respected Armorer in the business but she was more than JUST a daughter of an Armorer. She has been working in the industry as an Armorer, but had always worked under other Armorers (assistant, apprentice, call it what you will) learning the business. This is the first movie that she was the Armorer by herself and yes it was to keep costs down hiring an Armorer just starting out in the business.
The last thing is Alec Baldwin is feigning ignorance on guns in general and gun safety in particular. He has played numerous roles where he handled a gun, he is simply doing the same thing he has always done whenever he has got himself in a jam. Pass blame and make excuses and hope his celebrity carries him through.
Although I'm not a fan I think the charges are out of line. Accidents happen and there was no criminal intent nor any malice or forethought, it was an accident, a tragic accident but an accident none the less. I could see negligence with a deadly weapon at most. Another story I read stated that some of the extras got the Armorer to get them some live ammo so they could plink cans during the long boring breaks in between their scenes. A number one rule is no live ammo on a set. He was the Director and if he allowed that then there's more to look at.
My thoughts exactly
Talyn
SAINT
In the legal world the word "accident" doesn't exist, but the word "negligence" does.
KillerFord1977
SAINT
… and its reduced. Imagine that
www.foxnews.com
Alec Baldwin scores win in 'Rust' fatal shooting case as DA drops firearm enhancement
The prosecution dropped the firearms enhancement charge that could have put Alec Baldwin behind bars for a mandatory five years in new court docs filed Monday.
Anchorsaweigh
Elite
Gee...whooda thot?
Old_Me
Ronin
well "up to" 18 months in jail is still better than "no months in jail"… and its reduced. Imagine that
Alec Baldwin scores win in 'Rust' fatal shooting case as DA drops firearm enhancement
The prosecution dropped the firearms enhancement charge that could have put Alec Baldwin behind bars for a mandatory five years in new court docs filed Monday.
i'll take what i can......and from there, hope that he is never hired again, nor able to secure financing for any of his future projects, unless his next movie is about the game of "tiddlywinks" with the Muppets.